Bob Dylan accused of plagiarism

frotog · Sep 30, 2011

zsas said:
Gagosian is no stranger to controversy (ie Patrick Cariou winning case against Gagosian recently), all should give this a read...

http://www.artnet.com/magazineus/news/artnetnews/richard-prince-loses-lawsuit-3-21-11.asp

Re: Cariou vs. Prince and Gagosian.... This is far from over as Prince just won an appeal in this judgement and Gagosian is in the process of an appeal. Cariou hasn't won anything and if he does (which seems highly unlikely at this point), I'm not so sure it will be a good precedent to set in the arts. Read the artnet follow-up article dated sept. 17.

GumPhoto · Sep 30, 2011

People have been doing cover versions of Dylan forever. When you live in that kind of realm and you hear your own influence on others maybe you kind of develop a feeling of entitlement? Perhaps you kind of get caught up in the "open source" of art. Freewheeling Bob, right? Maybe he saw that photograph and was moved to create something visual, just like so many others have been moved to create words and music like his. But yes, he should stick to songwriting.

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 30, 2011

Favorite Dylan albums: Oh Mercy (1989), Blood on the Tracks (1975), Love and Theft (2001).

Don't like his paintings, but I guess he does what he likes to do. More power to him. At least he shows good taste, painting from really good photographs.

zsas · Sep 30, 2011

frotog said:
Re: Cariou vs. Prince and Gagosian.... This is far from over as Prince just won an appeal in this judgement and Gagosian is in the process of an appeal. Cariou hasn't won anything and if he does (which seems highly unlikely at this point), I'm not so sure it will be a good precedent to set in the arts. Read the artnet follow-up article dated sept. 17.

The mere fact that Prince can continue with his appeal does not vacate the verdict, and the ruling of Judge Batts still stands, which in effect calls Gagosian irresponsible (aka ignorant) and ultimately guilty. So if one of our fellow members (2F/2F) refers to Gagosian as "ignorant" there is case law to support that opinion.

If you are a proponent of liberal free use definition that is another matter

The fact of the matter here (Dylan) is that a painting is fair use and not in the same vein as the Prince fair use or cases like Shepard Fairey vs the AP or Mr Brainwash vs Glen Friedman

The issue causing all the debate is how Gagosian described Dylan's new body of work, the omission of the appropriation of photographs is creating buzz, that I believe to be intentional so folks like us who like art debate the issues and the buzz continues....

GumPhoto · Sep 30, 2011

ishutteratthethought said:
To me Dylan's paintings are like his harmonica playing, when you here him playing the harp or see a new painting, you know he's still alive and breathing........

nicely put

ic-racer · Sep 30, 2011

holmburgers said:
I have a premonition; this thread will spawn several heated arguments & personal attacks.

I strongly dissagree with you ****! It will not!!!!

zsas · Sep 30, 2011

^^^haaa.

Seriously lets keep it nice here, these kinds of thread in all art forums can go flame war'ish

brucemuir · Sep 30, 2011

ishutteratthethought said:
To me Dylan's paintings are like his harmonica playing, when you here him playing the harp or see a new painting, you know he's still alive and breathing........

Anyone ever heard Zappa's take on Bob's harmonica "playing"?

holmburgers · Sep 30, 2011

ic-racer said:
I strongly dissagree with you ****! It will not!!!!

Oh yeah?!?! Why I oughta....

ishutteratthethought · Sep 30, 2011

brucemuir said:
Anyone ever heard Zappa's take on Bob's harmonica "playing"?

I should state that I still love Bobby D's style. If there was ever a standard for exceptional poems put to folk music.... he is it.

brucemuir · Sep 30, 2011

ishutteratthethought said:
I should state that I still love Bobby D's style. If there was ever a standard for exceptional poems put to folk music.... he is it.

While he is more lyrical than say Leadbelly or his biggest influence WG he was never as powerful to me than either of those guys.

His harmonica can be like nails on a chalkboard at times but...

this is a photo site so I'll try to shut up now.

Colin Corneau · Sep 30, 2011

I don't mean my words to be harsh. I just think he should have referenced the (obvious) sources of his (mediocre) paintings. That would have been fair and, more to the point, respectful of artists as a whole.

Not doing so shows a lack of respect for other artists, and I don't think that's worthy of praise at all. His music is another aspect altogether and has no bearing on this particular issue.

vpwphoto · Sep 30, 2011

@ Colin ... exactly.

True story... I photographed a Dean at a university in 1991. I was then called to photograph a party for same Dean in 2009. They unveiled a painting of this dean, that was a painted exact interpretation of the portrait I made in 1991. The "artist" was honored with a toast, and likely at $4000 check... The Dean did come over to me (embarassed) gave me a hug and thanked the real artist.

bill schwab · Sep 30, 2011

While Bob may be my favorite songwriter, musician and living pop culture icon, he's not my favorite painter. Expecting rain...

JBrunner · Sep 30, 2011

Completely derivative, and definitely not original or inspired, but not plagiarism to my mind as that kind of reasoning would make a photos of architecture plagiarism. Personally I don't think they are that well executed, and I don't think being utterly derivative reflects favorably on him as an artist, but that's just my opinion.

2F/2F · Sep 30, 2011

zsas said:
Part of me thinks this Dylan work is shown and written up in the manner we see on purpose to create buzz for the show? Any press is good press...

If the gallery owner is not ignorant, then he is simply choosing to show the copied photographs just to bring attention to the show. Anyone who chose to put those paintings up either didn't recognize them, or put them up on purpose, knowing they would cause a controversy. My "ignorant" comment applied to the former case. In that latter, he isn't ignorant. He's just an @$$hole.

vpwphoto · Sep 30, 2011

I dunno if or how much the paintings are being sold for... but if they are I am sure a speculator will be more than happy to fork it over and that gallery owner will get 30-40%. Everybody wins except Cartier.

GumPhoto · Sep 30, 2011

Regarding the Art World, plagiarism, etc., check out Sherrie Levine's "appropriated imagery" of Walker Evans, among others. She is an artworld darling and has made a career out of reproducing others artworks, actually using copy cameras to duplicate at times. It calls into question the "parodox of originality", or so they say. Conceptual, ya know

2F/2F · Sep 30, 2011

vpwphoto said:
I dunno if or how much the paintings are being sold for... but if they are I am sure a speculator will be more than happy to fork it over and that gallery owner will get 30-40%. Everybody wins except Cartier.

exactly

removed account4 · Sep 30, 2011

did any of the painters in the 18hundreds announce
they used eugene atget's stock images as studies ?
did painters give credit to those they copied ?
this stuff has been going on forever ...

what about photographers that steal someone else's style
or mimic ansel adams or weston or hcb or ???
do they ever give credit to the person who they "borrowed from" ?

nope ...

Athiril · Sep 30, 2011

Steve Roberts said:
As the old saying goes (something like) "Copy one person's work and that's plagiarism, but copy several peoples' work and quote your references and it becomes research."
All Mr Dylan had to do was to have come up with some claptrap about "paintings based on photographs that reflected his experiences" and he couldn't have been criticised.

As musician-painters go, I admire the work of Tony Bennett.

Steve

Referencing isn't copying. You're telling people the sources you used, so you can't really pass it off as your own work.

PVia · Sep 30, 2011

billschwab said:
"Has been"??? Oh to have been an Ever Was. To many of those that listen, Dylan has done some of his best work in the last few years.

Have to agree with Bill on this...

In addition, as a painter, the only person you should rip off is your self. There's always trouble when you copy a photograph or other art in any way, not worth the aggravation regardless of your view on copyright, but all the criticism of Dylan's painting cracks me up at best, especially here, where more than half the gallery is loaded with work from people who happen to own a camera.

zsas · Sep 30, 2011

billschwab said:
Artists have been ripping one another off for years

Tis true, check ou this video by Kirby Ferguson, who goes so far to say that Everything is a Remix
http://vimeo.com/14912890

Gim · Sep 30, 2011

From these threads and from what I have read, I'm sure Dylan has faults. But that said, I wish I had 10% or his artistic ability and 1% of his impact on society. I would be happy......you?

Jim

pbromaghin · Sep 30, 2011

He's a musician covering Cartier and Eisenstaedt.

Bob Dylan accused of plagiarism

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Bob Dylan accused of plagiarism

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