Bleaching out orange mask but not silver image...

[Kino]

Any idea on how to do this? I have two rolls of C-22 I processed in D76 and there ARE silver images there but they are almost impossible to see because of the heavy, dark amber mask (film was 34 years old when processed! See (there was a url link here which no longer exists))

Wondering what to do...

 

[CRhymer]

Hi,

I have been thinking about this for some time - my in-laws were visiting, and I got busy with other things - like pinhole Sunday and gum prints. In the mean time, I think one could re-halogenate the silver image in ferricyanide/bromide, acid/dichromate, iodide or chloride and re-develop. The orange cast might be removed in the process. I think there was something on the alt-process list a while back. I have some film that I can sacrifice for testing. I'll give it a try and report back - before you try it on your valuable negs. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner on the other thread.

Of course you don't want to bleach the silver to a soluble compound or you will lose the image.

Perhaps someone else has a quick answer to this.

Here are a few links:

Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed

Cheers,
Clarence

 

[Kino]

Clarence,

Any light you can shine on the subject would be sincerely appreciated!

Thanks so much for the links!

Frank W.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The orange color consists of 2 things. One is the CLS yellow dye or silver layer that separates the blue layer from the rest of the film. The other is the orange dyes present for color correction and masking.

Removing either would destroy your silver image.

The only way to print it is either with a graded paper and a long exposure or a panchromatic B&W paper, or a color paper balanced to give a neutral image.

Best of luck.

PE

 

[Kino]

Hmmm, guess I had better start playing with 2366 and make an interpositive to strike a dupe neg from (2234)

PE, is there anyway to minimize the overbearing density of this orange layer in KodaColor X, C-22 film?

frank

 

[CRhymer]

The orange color consists of 2 things. One is the CLS yellow dye or silver layer that separates the blue layer from the rest of the film. The other is the orange dyes present for color correction and masking.

Removing either would destroy your silver image.

The only way to print it is either with a graded paper and a long exposure or a panchromatic B&W paper, or a color paper balanced to give a neutral image.

Best of luck.

PE

Hi PE,

This afternoon I did a rehalogenation bleach/redevelopment on some frames of Kodacolor II (C-41) 120 which I had originally developed in Rodinal. The originals were printable, but required long times and limited contrast control with the paper I had available. I used KMnO4 and H2SO4 since I had them on hand for reversal and added NaCl to provide halogen. The orange almost completely disappeared and the image redeveloped nicely. Whether there is improvement in the printability of the negatives I won't know until I try. I don't have a scanner or densitometer, but I had a friend scan a couple of the original frames to see if he could do a better job in Photoshop. His print results were about the same as mine. I will see how scans of the redeveloped frames compare to the originals.

Kino has Kodacolor X (C-22) so I am not sure if the layers are the same (in general) to Kodacolor II. I don't recommend bleaching at this point, but one can certainly get rid of most of the orange/yellow without destroying the image.

It occurred to me that if there is a silver layer that has not been removed in the B&W developing process it may persist in rehalogenation/redevlopment to replace the orange cast with increased (black silver) base.

Please comment,

Cheers,
Clarence

 

[Photo Engineer]

Although Kodacolor X and Kodacolor II are intended for different processes, the oragne color in both is composed of CLS and a mixture of orange azo dyes which mask the film.

As such, they don't bleach out with normal film bleaches, as they are intended to stay in the film permanently. In fact, since the CLS layer is silver, bleaching it would bleach the silver image.

The matter is different if you have a color dye image, in which case bleaching removes silver but leaves dye.

I have no idea why the orange color bleached in your case, as it either should not have, or if it did, the silver image should have gone with it pretty much.

In any case, good luck to you all.

PE