Bleaching by hand question

[Bob Carnie]

Printers
So I am very close now , to start my large Heavy Metal Series. Enlarger prints using a two stage solarization technique on Ilford MG4

I have made the large sink and all works well, I have nailed down the quad toning technique that I am very happy with, and I have ran quite a few murals through the room to my satisfaction..

So here is the problem,, My prints when solarized do not have the pop that I require because all highlights tend to be a middle grey with this process, I do like the look but I think with local bleaching I can bring those highlights back a bit which will add an extra dimension to these prints.
I have changed my paper to Ilford MG4 matte surface since I think this surface will handle the bleach and toning quite well.

I am making 30inch x 40 inch prints and need a very good method to work with.
so here are some ques.

1. what type of bleach should I use? Dilution?
2. can I local bleach right after the second fix and slight wash?
3. what techniques are reccomended , I will use appropriate size brush
4. when I get the tone I like how does one stop quickly?
5. do I go right into the fix for a time and then finish as normal?
6. any problematic things to look out for, streaking, contanimation?
7. This is all done before a final wash and then the toning stage?

I have made some small test prints today on the paper of choice and hope to get a lot of good advice.

thanks in advance

Bob

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

1. I use potassium ferricyanide and just mix a few crystals with some water to make a pale yellow solution.

2. You can bleach straight from the fix.

3. There is a good article on the technique in special issue #11 of _Photo Techniques_ by Bruce Barnbaum, if I remember correctly, on this. He puts the print on a sheet of plexiglass and keeps a hose with running water handy to rinse as he goes and keep bleach from dripping where it shouldn't.

4. You need to stop before you get the tone you want, because then the print goes back in the fix and it will continue to bleach. It's the same as Farmer's Reducer--the bleach and fix work together.

5. Yes.

6. Light areas bleach faster than dark areas, so you might try to orient the print so that bleach won't drip onto a place where you don't want bleach to drip. You can redevelop prior to fixing if you make a mistake, but I haven't tried it.

7. Yes--bleach, fix, wash.

 

[dpurdy]

I do a lot of bleaching in my printing but I can't answer all your questions. My technique is to mix up some Potassium ferricyanide in a seperate small tray. Keep it pretty dilute and test it on test scraps in the sink. I usually use a Japanese Hake brush but sometimes use q-tips for small areas. I would recommend you use surgical gloves when doing it because my experience with not wearing gloves is that my fingers get skin cracks by the nails. Also in my procedure I use another reject print underneath the print I am working on so it doubles it's strength and I can go in and out of a fix tray quickly. Different papers respond more to the bleach. I find warm tone papers bleach more quickly so I use a weaker Pot Ferri bath. I have gotten yellow stains from using too strong a dilution but not often.

Recently I printed a large wedding job on paper that a small area of fog on one corner. I had to go through when all done and bleach all the prints to have a clean border. In that case I had already washed and dried the prints before bleaching them. I set up an assembly line and first saturated the small corner area with fix by dipping just the corner in the fix then dipped the same corner in a tray of Ferricyanide. I mixed it strong and it bleached the corner clean very quickly. Then I refixed in the kodak rapid fix for just a short while till all the yellow color was long gone then I went to a water bath and then to a hypo clear and then a full rewash.

It is very easy to get streaking. You will figure that out very quickly.

 

[jovo]

As David mentioned, Bruce Barnbaum's book is an excellent guide. Keep the hose with running water just underneath the place you are bleaching so that the run-off bleach doesn't affect the area below it (bleaching tool in your dominant hand, hose in the other). You can also run the water on the bleached place immediately so it's easy to stop it from working. I use a Q-tip with one end soaked in bleach, and the other in fix. I first swab the spot I'm working on with the fix, and then use the bleach end. It takes a lot to affect MGIVFB, but once it happens, it's quite effective.

 

[tim rudman]

Hi Bob
Re your points in order ...

1) I mostly use pot ferricyanide for this type of bleaching. If you want to go right back to white, iodine is better. If you want very accurate bleaching then perhaps a thiourea/alcohol approach is best on a dry print (detailed descriptions in Master Photog's printing Course). For lifting mid tones with local bleaching I use a 10% pot ferri soln and an approx 1/2 (paper) strength fix soln and a brush, or cotton wool swab for bigger areas. In a pot with say 20ml fix I add about 6 drops 10% PF, less if working on light tones, more on dark tones or cold papers.
Run a hose just below the area you are bleaching, to catch runs and to wash off the work area regularly. Wipe dry(ish) to avoid 'creep' and repeat until desired effect.
Neither the drop number nor the fix strength is too critical. Work slowly (not easy for you I suspect ) otherwise you risk staining.
Better to wash off early and repeat than to wait to see the desired effect straight off.
To find the conc you want, try first on a test strip or reject - then go a bit more dilute and work slower. If you get staining you are probably stuck with it, so its worth taking a little extra time in the long run.

2)Yes, straight out of fixer is fine.

3)As above

4)Use the hose. I prefer to work with PF + fix (Farmers type soln) as above rather than PF alone and then fix, as the latter always goes a bit further in the fix.
Also, from experience I always stop before I think it has gone far enough and assess next day when dry. It is easy for your eye to get used to the change and not realise how far you have gone until you see it next day and find it has gone too far. A wet reference print alongside helps. It's a simple matter to take it a bit further if you need, but you can't take it back unless you have omitted the fixer, and then you risk further lightening when you do fix.

5)Yes

6)As above, re going too far. Also as mentioned in another reply, orientate the print with darker tones 'downhill' as runswon't show as much.
Also never open the bottle of PF soln too near the print. Dried PF powder round the screw cap can be released when you unsrew the cap and fall onto the print, giving you a spotting nightmare!

7)Yes, I would hypoclear too if going on to any toning stage.

P.S.
[8) You would be very welcome to join us here Dead Link Removed ]

Tim

 

[tim rudman]

An afterthought Bob,
If you want to just 'sparkle up' the print without local work, you could use...

Farmer’s Soln ‘brightening’ bath:
Good for adding highlight sparkle or counteracting miscalculated dry down. Various strengths recommended by different people. Ansel Adams‘ was: ‗Farmer‘s reducer R-4a‘, which is:
Soln A: Potassium Ferricyanide 75g in 1 Litre water (i.e. 7.5% soln.)
Soln B: Sodium Thiosulphate 240g in 1 litre water
100ml A + 100ml B + 1 or 1½ litre water.
Swiftly slide in dry print. Agitate rapidly 10 – 15 seconds and hose off quickly.
Repeat if necessary. Re-fix.
NOTE: AA. Used coldtone papers. Warmtone papers generally bleach much faster – take care! Bleach for shorter times &/or dilute slightly (very dilute ferricyanide works differently)

Tim

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

So ! How is the Ferri doing...?
G.

 

[richard ide]

Bob,
If you want real control with bleaching: take print out of fix and squeegee gently, swab on PF very dilute (maybe .1% or even less). Wash off and swab with fix. Repeat as necessary. Slow but effective. There is enough residual fix in emulsion to work.

 

[donbga]

An afterthought Bob,
If you want to just 'sparkle up' the print without local work, you could use...

Farmer’s Soln ‘brightening’ bath:
Good for adding highlight sparkle or counteracting miscalculated dry down. Various strengths recommended by different people. Ansel Adams‘ was: ‗Farmer‘s reducer R-4a‘, which is:
Soln A: Potassium Ferricyanide 75g in 1 Litre water (i.e. 7.5% soln.)
Soln B: Sodium Thiosulphate 240g in 1 litre water
100ml A + 100ml B + 1 or 1½ litre water.
Swiftly slide in dry print. Agitate rapidly 10 – 15 seconds and hose off quickly.
Repeat if necessary. Re-fix.
NOTE: AA. Used coldtone papers. Warmtone papers generally bleach much faster – take care! Bleach for shorter times &/or dilute slightly (very dilute ferricyanide works differently)

Tim

My experience with AA's formula listed above is that it is extremely 'hot'. The first print I ever bleached for brightening came out almost white in just a few seconds. I can't recall the paper but it was either Ilford MG4 or Agfa MCC. Test with throw away prints.

 

[tim rudman]

My experience with AA's formula listed above is that it is extremely 'hot'. The first print I ever bleached for brightening came out almost white in just a few seconds. I can't recall the paper but it was either Ilford MG4 or Agfa MCC. Test with throw away prints.

Yes, I would agree with that Don, current papers react fast, hence the footnote in my post. Very little in the way of slow 'bromide' papers these days.
I do use this soln in workshops but always dilute it for current papers. However, I do think it should be used as a fast dunk, in & out in seconds, just to lift the highlights. If it is diluted a lot more for a more studied approach its action seems to be different and less HL specific
Tim