Blank negatives and I don't know why

mfratt · Jun 30, 2011

I just developed a roll of film that I shot tonight and was very very excited about, and I pulled out a completely blank roll. I have no idea what caused it. Any advice?

Film: 120 Ilford Pan F+ 50
Dev: Xtol 1+3 @ 68F @ 12 minutes

I developed two rolls last night in the same fashion and from the same batch of developer and they came out beautiful.

I can't image its an in-camera problem.
Like I said, same soup as what worked last night.

???

Its really grinding me as to how excited I was about these negatives! I swear I had some of my best images yet on that roll! I just want to go back in time and get them back! Argh! (Sorry if I'm bickering, its 3AM here and I have no one else to vent at)

darkosaric · Jun 30, 2011

Maybe you put fixer first, and then developer - and you don't remember?

Bob-D659 · Jun 30, 2011

Blank blank as in no edge markings or just no images.

Ian Grant · Jun 30, 2011

Dev: Xtol 1+3 @ 68F @ 12 minutes

Like I said, same soup as what worked last night.

How literally is that "same soup" do you mean you re-used the developer, because at that dilution it exhausts quickly, also keeps very poorly.

Ian

mfratt · Jun 30, 2011

- I am certain that I used the chemistry in the correct order.
- No edge markings, nothing at all
- Same batch of stock solution, same mix date (about a week ago), not reused. Kept in capped 1L bottles. I diluted the developer 1+3 about 10 minutes before processing.

piu58 · Jun 30, 2011

You may beleive it or not - you poured in the fixer first. There exist a tiny chance that the developer ist dead. But from working to totally dead in a few day - that is very unlikely. If the developer still exist you may put a small piece of film or even photgraphic paper in it to see whether it stiil works. If it works you'd get at least hints of the edge markings. Totally blank film means fixer first.

hpulley · Jun 30, 2011

Don't develop film at 3am is the moral of the story perhaps... sorry about your luck. Fixer first it sounds like.

benjiboy · Jun 30, 2011

I always mark the containers for developer fixer and stop bath with different colours and follow the red blue green sequence.

markbarendt · Jun 30, 2011

mfratt said:
- No edge markings, nothing at all

Sorry to say this but that is the gold standard of proof that the problem is "chemical".

Either the developer was totally dead, low probability, or fix got used first, high probability.

If the developer and fix were reused it's possible that the mistake was even made "last night" when you put things away and just "showed up" tonight.

Monito · Jun 30, 2011

As far as colour markings to keep chemical order straight, I use:

Brown for developer, since it stains trays brown and we keep it in brown bottles to keep it dark.

Red for Stop bath. Red means Stop!

Green for Fix: Green means Go! When it is fixed you can look at it.

White for washing.

hpulley · Jun 30, 2011

That's why I like C-41 and RA-4, there is no question about what things are just from looking! If you can't tell the developer from the blix then it is time to mix a new batch

With B&W it is tougher but by smell you can tell developer, stop and fixer pretty easily.

MattKing · Jun 30, 2011

One slight wrinkle on the "fixer first" guess:

Especially if you use a pre-rinse like I do, it is fairly easy to miss the developer entirely - at least at 3 a.m..

A pre-rinse, stop bath, fixer routine is much less likely to give good results than a pre-rinse, developer, stop bath, fixer routine.

Robert Hall · Jun 30, 2011

One might keep an inexpensive set of litmus papers around to do a quick test before development as well.

However, I'm with others in saying "don't develop film at 3am"

jordanstarr · Jun 30, 2011

..another vote on fixer first. Xtol keeps decent and even in the open air for 3 days, you should at least see faint markings with your film type on the edge of the film.

vpwphoto · Jun 30, 2011

Edge markings would show up faint along with images even with exhausted developer... you fixed it first.

vpwphoto · Jun 30, 2011

Robert Hall said:
"don't develop film at 3am"

Hell, I do all my best work at those hours!

mfratt · Jun 30, 2011

vpwphoto said:
Hell, I do all my best work at those hours!

As do I... usually.

Its not possible that I fixed it first, as the fixer didn't even come out of its amber glass storage bottle until after the stop bath. And when I did fix it, I recognized the fixer's smell, identifying it as fixer. Also, I only keep one bottle of fixer mixed up on my chemistry shelf.

As for the developer, I mixed 100ml of developer with 300ml of water, then put it in the refrigerator for a few minutes because it was still a few degrees too warm. Is it possible that a problem came from the dilution? (I usually use stock or 1+1, but I've recently started using Pan F at night and was experimenting with trying to tame the contrast).

Or could the problem be related to processing one roll in a two reel tank? I used the loaded reel on the bottom with an empty reel above it and 400ml of solution. Agitated first 30 seconds then 4 inversion cycles every minute for 12 minutes.

I'm gonna try testing the developer on some paper or something when I get back in there... but I fail to see how developer from the same batch could be fine one night and dead the next.

aiskanda11 · Jun 30, 2011

I have the same problem a couple of weeks a go... No edge markings just completely blank. Turns out the problem was because i just installed a safelight and the film was exposed to the safelight...

mfratt · Jun 30, 2011

aiskanda11 said:
I have the same problem a couple of weeks a go... No edge markings just completely blank. Turns out the problem was because i just installed a safelight and the film was exposed to the safelight...

Wouldn't this just cause the film to fog/expose?

MartinP · Jun 30, 2011

Last time you used the chemicals, did you put the fix back in the developer bottle by mistake? That would definitely kill the developer. Otherwise, it was fixed first - everyone does it once.

tkamiya · Jun 30, 2011

If there were no edge markings, it is obvious that none of the latent images got converted to metallic silver before removed by the fixer.

If you still have the same developer, dilute it the same way, and use a clip of exposed film, such as some discarded leader from 35mm negs, soak it for the same amount of time, then fix. If it comes out clear, then your developer has failed completely. If it didn't somehow, the process was mixed up or reversed.

I find it hard to believe, a developer would fail this completely but test will show if it did or not.

frobozz · Jun 30, 2011

tkamiya said:
If you still have the same developer, dilute it the same way, and use a clip of exposed film, such as some discarded leader from 35mm negs, soak it for the same amount of time, then fix. If it comes out clear, then your developer has failed completely. If it didn't somehow, the process was mixed up or reversed.

I find it hard to believe, a developer would fail this completely but test will show if it did or not.

You shouldn't even need to fix it - if you develop it as above in the light, it should turn black, and your test is done. If it doesn't turn black, the developer's done!

Duncan

tkamiya · Jun 30, 2011

frobozz said:
You shouldn't even need to fix it

When I do my test, I develop it and fix it. If the developer didn't work, the emulsion will dissolve when fixed. If it did work, it will stay. Exposed film will already look milky and dark'ish. I do it my way so the test criteria is, is it transparent or not.

That's just my test process.

MattKing · Jun 30, 2011

mfratt said:
As for the developer, I mixed 100ml of developer with 300ml of water, then put it in the refrigerator for a few minutes because it was still a few degrees too warm. Is it possible that a problem came from the dilution?.

Yes, if you missed adding the stock developer, and attempted to develop the film in water alone

aiskanda11 · Jun 30, 2011

mfratt said:
Wouldn't this just cause the film to fog/expose?

Ooo you mean blank as in see through.. Mines is fog..

Blank negatives and I don't know why

mfratt

darkosaric

Bob-D659

Ian Grant

mfratt

piu58

hpulley

benjiboy

markbarendt

Monito

hpulley

MattKing

Moderator

Robert Hall

jordanstarr

vpwphoto

vpwphoto

mfratt

aiskanda11

mfratt

MartinP

tkamiya

frobozz

tkamiya

MattKing

Moderator

aiskanda11

Blank negatives and I don't know why

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency