Black Bag Alternatives

Mars · Oct 13, 2017

Hi! I teach a high school Photography class, I am new to the dark room. I want the kids to develop their own film, I have not been the most successful with is, I have been able to develop a reel, but many of the pictures were totally black. This happened to me twice. I am wondering if the room I am using to develop film, is not light tight. I thought those black bags might be helpful, but they are expensive, does anyone know a fix for those? Also, do you think it is the room that is not light tight or something else that might have gone wrong. Thank you!

grimp0teuthis · Oct 13, 2017

If the room is not pitch black it is not dark enough. Changing bags are easy to use and run a bit above $20 each (see freestylephoto or other online shops).

If some of the shots are coming out fine and others are terribly overexposed, it might be an issue with the camera instead of the darkroom.

AgX · Oct 13, 2017

One need not to overdo things. One can perfectly load cassettes or reels without a properdarkroom or loader.
Stay in that darkenerd room for many minutes and then see if there are light leaks. Often these can be coped with by a towel or such. In my case the winsow blinds were not fully tight, so I postponed cassette and reel loading to the evening, something not feasable for a school...

A basic differenciation between the complete exposure to come from the camera or the room is the shape of the fogging. If it has the shape of the film frame then it is camera that overexposed...

pentaxuser · Oct 13, 2017

I assume that this photography course is extra curricular and the high school, other than providing a room, accepts no responsibility? If it is a recognised course then surely the school has to ensure that the darkroom meets darkroom standards?

pentaxuser

MattKing · Oct 13, 2017

Do you have a cupboard that is big enough to stand in, and you can add weather stripping around the door and a towel on the floor?

Mr Bill · Oct 13, 2017

Mars said:
... but many of the pictures were totally black.

Do you mean that the film itself is actually black, meaning that you cannot see through it? Or do you mean that it is perfectly clear? (People sometimes say that the "picture is black" to mean that the film is clear.)

AgX said:
Stay in that darkenerd room for many minutes and then see if there are light leaks.

This is a good idea, but in truth, 3 or 4 minutes is probably adequate, more or less. If you want to be very finicky about it, though, our ability to see tiny light leaks continues to improve beyond 20 minutes, at least.

AgX · Oct 14, 2017

Some people got a reduced night vision without knowing, they need longer and still will not adapt as others.

Svenedin · Oct 14, 2017

Your darkroom does have to be completely dark to load film on reels. Whilst you can use changing bags these are really not ideal to try to teach students. It is more difficult to load a film in the restricted space in a changing bag and it would be very hard to assist a student using a changing bag.

Truzi · Oct 14, 2017

Echoing a few comments above - do you have a closet? In my undergrad the university had a decent darkroom for printing, but for loading film on reels we had a claustrophobic little closet with a small table. The door sealed well, and the closet was not off the darkroom.

The wide "doors" to the darkroom were made by a company, but quite simple - more like curtains. They were made of large, heavy, light-proof cloth or canvas, each piece about 2/3 the width of the door, so they overlapped. Tension (ropes? elastic?) held them fairly tight to each other. You just pushed through at an angle into a vestibule area (light-lock) and through another, similar, "door" into the darkroom itself.

If your high school has a wood shop, you might be able to create something similar if you can get permission. It may cost as much in material as a few changing bags, but would have advantages.

Oh, and make sure you demonstrate how to load whatever reels they are using. I'd never used stainless at the time, just the ratcheting plastic ones, so thought I had to push the film in the stainless ones. That didn't work well, lol.

guangong · Oct 15, 2017

Can not load reels and can not successfully develop a roll of film. And teaching how to load a developing tank and develop? Hubris.

mgb74 · Oct 15, 2017

guangong said:
Can not load reels and can not successfully develop a roll of film. And teaching how to load a developing tank and develop? Hubris.

Whether we like it or not, it's a digital age for photography. Most students today will never experience film or darkroom. I applaud the OP for taking the effort to try and teach his/her students to process film even while learning at the same time.

So I suggest that if one of our members are close to him/her, perhaps they can get together for a tutorial. And help set up a space for loading film. The OP's location is listed as "Eastbay". I'm aware of an Eastbay area south of Boston, but there may be other locations called Eastbay as well.

MattKing · Oct 15, 2017

If this is a shared resource perhaps it would be a good idea to look for the sort of film unloading box/tent that minilabs used to use. There may even be one in the classifieds here right now.

Edit: I have bumped the listing - it is actually the Harrison Changing tent, and would probably be excellent for students.

Mars · Oct 23, 2017

guangong said:
Can not load reels and can not successfully develop a roll of film. And teaching how to load a developing tank and develop? Hubris.

I did end up being able to develop. I did not ask the question to be judged. I want the kids to use the dark room. Thank God, most people on this forum are supportive and helpful.

Mars · Oct 23, 2017

MattKing said:
If this is a shared resource perhaps it would be a good idea to look for the sort of film unloading box/tent that minilabs used to use. There may even be one in the classifieds here right now.

Edit: I have bumped the listing - it is actually the Harrison Changing tent, and would probably be excellent for students.

Thank you

CMoore · Oct 23, 2017

Mars said:
I did end up being able to develop. I did not ask the question to be judged. I want the kids to use the dark room. Thank God, most people on this forum are supportive and helpful.

Sorry About That.....some guys are always looking for a fight.
Another member recently posted a....."How do you remove finger prints from film".....question, and one of the answers he got was.....(paraphrasing) "It is easier if you do not get finger prints on the film to begin with".
Yeah...no shit. I guess some of our members never make a mistake or were born with 100% camera skills. Turns out the member was printing some negatives that did not even belong to him and he wanted to know how to clean them up.
Just try to ignore that stuff, and accept that we are living in an Imperfect World.
Anyway.......i have never like the bags. They can be pretty restrictive and my Hands/Arms always get kind of hot.
If you have a big enough room, then 2-3-4 people can go in, and if there is a problem, even through it is Dark/Black, you can still help each other out.
On the other hand.....some guys do not like the loss of "Vision" that you have in a black room. They are more comfortable with still being able to "See" while they load in a dark-bag...if you know what i mean.
I am in Suisun City 94585 if that is any help to you.....Please feel free to shoot me an Email or a P.M.if i can be of any help.
good luck

Mars · Oct 23, 2017

mgb74 said:
Whether we like it or not, it's a digital age for photography. Most students today will never experience film or darkroom. I applaud the OP for taking the effort to try and teach his/her students to process film even while learning at the same time.

So I suggest that if one of our members are close to him/her, perhaps they can get together for a tutorial. And help set up a space for loading film. The OP's location is listed as "Eastbay". I'm aware of an Eastbay area south of Boston, but there may be other locations called Eastbay as well.

Hi! Thank you for this...a friend I found through this forum has helped me, I am always looking to improve though.

Mars · Oct 23, 2017

CMoore said:
Sorry About That.....some guys are always looking for a fight.
Another member recently posted a....."How do you remove finger prints from film".....question, and one of the answers he got was.....(paraphrasing) "It is easier if you do not get finger prints on the film to begin with".
Yeah...no shit. I guess some of our members never make a mistake or were born with 100% camera skills. Turns out the member was printing some negatives that did not even belong to him and he wanted to know how to clean them up.
Just try to ignore that stuff, and accept that we are living in an Imperfect World.
Anyway.......i have never like the bags. They can be pretty restrictive and my Hands/Arms always get kind of hot.
If you have a big enough room, then 2-3-4 people can go in, and if there is a problem, even through it is Dark/Black, you can still help each other out.
On the other hand.....some guys do not like the loss of "Vision" that you have in a black room. They are more comfortable with still being able to "See" while they load in a dark-bag...if you know what i mean.
I am in Suisun City 94585 if that is any help to you.....Please feel free to shoot me an Email or a P.M.if i can be of any help.
good luck

Thank you!

darkroommike · Oct 24, 2017

Even better than a bag, if you can find one that is, is the Fuji box/tent that they made to reload one hour printer paper magazines without a darkroom, those suckers are huge, our school has one. I'm sure other one hour lab makers had something similar. Our new darkroom has only one film loading room, the old darkroom had three so we feel the pinch sometimes. The Harrison Pup Tent is also ideal but as others have pointed out it is a bit confining compared to have a little room to spread the bits out while loading. The Photoflex Film Changing room is another alternative.

JWMster · Oct 26, 2017

FWIW, I have two film changing bags and the small ones aren't much good. Bigger is better, but it is still going to be harder to change the film out in a bag than doing so anywhere else. Just saying.

While a changing bag worked for me with 35mm, I found the jump to 120 pushed me to abandon the bag. The bag is awkward at best anyway. Solution was to start using a closet. I have a dark, reasonably opaque shower curtain I hang across the door, and (because the shower curtain isn't long enough) a piece of cardboard that I fit across the bottom. The cost of this set up was under $50 - including the shower curtain rod. Proof is that this seems to work even when I don't think it's dark enough. And it works without a problem.

When I have the time and the inclination, my PREFERRED approach is to wait for nightfall and let the natural darkness outside solve more of my light problems. The closet is MUCH easier than the changing bag because some reels are not the easiest things to get film on to... at least not the first million times or so. And if you find yourself struggling in a changing bag - and I have, the humidity and heat can build up in the bag making it all that more difficult. I actually had a roll of film ruined from the heat - at least that's what it looked like. With high school students, I think the more room you can give them and the better the conditions in which they're working - whether changing the film or developing or whatever - the better and the more they will like it, and nothing breeds enthusiasm like a little success.

jack straw · Oct 29, 2017

I use a cardboard box, flipped on its side, with an old sheet over the opening, under which I slip my hands. The opening faces away from any possible light leak. I originally set this up as insurance in my makeshift darkroom (large basement), but it works so well I don’t bother putting the blackout curtains over the doors anymore when using it—just turn off the lights and go. Cost nothing!

CMoore · Oct 29, 2017

jack straw said:
I use a cardboard box, flipped on its side, with an old sheet over the opening, under which I slip my hands. The opening faces away from any possible light leak. I originally set this up as insurance in my makeshift darkroom (large basement), but it works so well I don’t bother putting the blackout curtains over the doors anymore when using it—just turn off the lights and go. Cost nothing!

Well Done. Where there is a will.......

I saw an interview of some Photographers of The Vietnam War, from "Both Sides" as it were.
Not that all the AP/Magazine/Wire guys used them, but.....The usa military had some very cool field units for developing and printing film.
Juxtapose THAT to how many of The Vietnamese Photographers worked :
1. In Rivers with somebody holding a poncho over them.
2. Under a box.....brilliant minds.....
3. Inside of Broken and Abandoned vehicles.
4. Etc etc.

Svenedin · Oct 29, 2017

jack straw said:
I use a cardboard box, flipped on its side, with an old sheet over the opening, under which I slip my hands. The opening faces away from any possible light leak. I originally set this up as insurance in my makeshift darkroom (large basement), but it works so well I don’t bother putting the blackout curtains over the doors anymore when using it—just turn off the lights and go. Cost nothing!

That's a good idea. My darkroom is not absolutely light tight (during daylight hours) so I use my changing bag but just put my hands through the open end rather than the armholes. It is enough to deal with the minimal stray light.

Sirius Glass · Oct 29, 2017

When I started loading 4"x5" film in Grafmatic 45s, I started using this:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/25001-Photoflex-Changing-Room
Which is large enough to handle taking film out of any of my cameras if problems exist. Also it will handle the large Jobo 3010 Expert Drum which holds up to ten 4"x5" film sheets.

Black Bag Alternatives

Mars

grimp0teuthis

AgX

pentaxuser

MattKing

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Mr Bill

AgX

Svenedin

Truzi

guangong

mgb74

MattKing

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Mars

Mars

CMoore

Mars

Mars

darkroommike

JWMster

jack straw

CMoore

Svenedin

Sirius Glass

Black Bag Alternatives

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