Biotar Lens ID?

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Chris Coppola

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Oct 11, 2016
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Hello, I don't post here very often, but I am stuck in the mud and hope maybe somebody can help me out with this. I was killing some time today at a thrift store while my daughter was in a class, and I saw a lens labeled "brass lens" for $40. I asked to see it and I saw it I was a little shocked and confused because I've never seen this particular lens. It is a Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 5cm f1.4. So I bought it and cannot figure out EXACTLY what it is, or what its worth (I also grabbed a working and almost mint Pentax Digital Spotmeter for an extra $20). Nothing concrete on google other than it came off the line in 1928 and its a double gauss and could possibly be an early Cinema lens. I'd like to sell it, but I need to find a value for it. If anyone can help me, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!!
Chris
SMALL  Biotar-4.jpg
SMALL  Biotar-2.jpg
SMALL  Biotar-3.jpg
SMALL  Biotar.jpg
 

Fixcinater

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You've probably seen this one on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/282290818406

That one is modified to fit and work with Leicas, so yours in assumably un-modified form could be worth more or less depending on the potential client's intention.

I would be patient and make sure you know exactly what it is before you put it on the market.
 
OP
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Chris Coppola

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
19
Location
Buffalo NY
Format
35mm
I think it's a cine lens just because the little bit of info I could find said there was a 50 1.4 developed early for 16mm film in C-mount. I could be way off, that's why I'm reaching out to people who know more. You folks!
 

shutterfinger

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A Lens Collectors Vade Mecum list the Biotar as a "movie" lens with several patents for both 6 glass and 7 glass designs and suggest production was 6 glass/8 air surface.
The condensed serial number list shows 1928 ending at 908150 and 1929 starting at 919794 putting your lens in the gap between the years.
"Biotar f1.4 17, 20, 25,40,50mm,also a 70mm was due or reputed. It covers 42° (design
35-40°). 17, 20 and 25mm came later, the latter in some mountings such as Bell&Howell. (B.J.A. 1930,
p362). This was 'the latest introduction from --Carl Zeiss' in the B.J.A. 1929, p360. It was of 6-glass with 8 airglass
surfaces, and 35mm was needed for the 24x18mm of movie format, and 16.7mm for 16mm. This is an
angle of 42°. It was said to give excellent definition at f1.4, and maintains it on close down to f2, f3.5 and
smaller. It seems to have been introduced as 40mm (with 23mm clear back space) and 50mm for movie, and
25mm for 16mm, though 17 and 20mm were planned, and did in fact arrive.
Prices were 40mm £15.50; 50mm, £17.50; 25mm,£11.75.
There are references to 7 and 6-glass f1.4 Biotars in the Patent. It seems that the version sold was the 6-glass
from the examples seen. Those examined were at No 225,39x and 1,365,64x so this seems to be the norm. It
is given in Am. Photo. Facts and Figure 6th. Series, No 69 and in Hendley and Dudley, 1939) as 6-glass but
the 7-glass is shown in the Patent. So perhaps both layouts were used. It seems to be a 1927 design? (DRP
485,798 of 1927, Brit Pat. No 297,823, USPat 1,786,916/1930). (Layouts Zei026;Zei027). The glasses used
were G1+5+6=1.64238/48.0; G2= 1.62306/56.9; G3= 1.57566/41.2; G4= 1.67270/32.2."
Biotar f2.0 (Both Biotars f2.0 and f1.4 were designed by Merte.)
(Layout Zei031), B.J.A.1930, p363:1931, p318)
ScreenHunter_13 Jul. 19 23.18.jpg

Note Some 50mm lenses have been found in a very heavy black enamel mount with M39 thread and these
just may be for M39 rangefinder use but may equally have been made for a movie camera with M39 thread.
They do trade expensively as Leica-fit items however. The serial numbers are early 1930's and they may well
have been an attempt to market the Biotar for Leica before the Leica patents were published. There are also
reports of later Zeiss lenses (not Biotars) in M39, but these seem to be very late 1930's or early 1940's items
made under "stress of war". Otherwise no use seems to be known for these f1.4 Biotars on still cameras, but
the B.J.A. 1939 p550 describes them as for "cine and miniature cameras" so something has perhaps been
missed.
 

AgX

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Apr 5, 2007
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Location
Germany
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Multi Format
I got quite different data for this lens.

Anyway, for a lens of the assumed price range the OP should have done his homework before. He did not even establish the mount and other easy to establish features.
 
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