Biodegradable photographic film?

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jsmoove

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I realize this is in a darkroom thread, but if there isnt, then what options are there for alternative high resolution biodegradable printing? Is paper the #1?
 
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jsmoove

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I was looking to put images in nature, but I didnt want to litter. Youre probably right, thats actually pretty counter-intuitive. Though are there substrates that are chemically reactive to water?
A high-er resolution water soluble photographic paper perhaps?
 
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koraks

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I see your point. Well, I suppose fiber base paper would be the closest to what you're looking for. The only concern would be the small amount of silver that constitutes the image itself and that happens to be a biocide.
 

AgX

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Toxic as such are silver-ions. However here we got metallic silver, though of nano-scale and thus yielding a relative large surface. But first thus the silver must form salts and these then emit ions. From then on the pathway is that of ions directly emitted. And here there is assumption of strong retention of ions in the environmenty waters and soil by forming relative unsoluable salts.


The idea of designing biodegradable plastics at first seemed to have its merits. Meanwhile though they are used for marketing ploys. In Germany they already form a problem within household waste. As they especially are marketed at a premium to be disposed of in municipal biodegradable waste to be composted.
As biodegradable in context of plastics often means something else trhan with vegetabile stuff, these plastics form a major contamination within the compost and thus have to be manually sorted out before. Regulations on these plastics may come.

And seemingly even these industrial composting plants are still the best options to degrade those plastics. This is what makes a use as films to be dropped in nature questionable.
 
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Pieter12

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Cyanotype?
 

mshchem

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You would want to stay away from RC paper. Fiber paper is available as cellulose and cotton. The Ilford Art 300 is a pure cotton paper with gelatin emulsion. The silver content of a single print would be a few milligrams. Still silver is considered a heavy metal.
Fiber based paper is based on natural fibers.
Plastics are a nightmare.
 

Bill Burk

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Pieter12 said:
Cyanotype?
Click to expand...
I think you're on the right track, alt processes can use carbon pigments which would be good for the environment, (you would be putting carbon into the earth)... You can use any kind of unbleached tree-based paper.
 

MattKing

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Liquid emulsion on fabric?
 

AgX

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But the idea just IS to put the photographs into nature.
 

Luckless

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What kind of resolution are you looking for/what sort of image do you wish to reproduce?

How long do you need it to last, and under what conditions?

How long after End-of-Service-Life do you want the material to be "gone"?
 

jim10219

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Clorophyll prints are probably your best bet, but they wouldn't last long. The sun would eat them quickly. Second would likely be a more traditional printing method that involved setting the image to a plate and printing onto paper using a soy based ink, like how they make newspapers. That would require quite a bit of an investment in equipment, however. Another option would be gum or casein print with a natural pigment, like seinna brown (iron oxide) or ivory black (carbon from charred bone), though they wouldn't biodegrade as quickly, but they would biodegrade cleanly. They also wouldn't be too environmentally friendly to make due to the dichromate, however, that should completely wash out during development. Then there's this method: https://www.heatherdaugustine.com/daugustinechibarecipes

Though it's apparently more difficult to do.
 

Vaughn

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koraks said:
I understand. Not all ideas should necessarily be pursued, however
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Some conceptual art pieces should best stay as concepts (such as that brilliant, but insane idea of stringing bras across the Grand Canyon).

I like the idea of documenting the degrading of the art piece in the environment. Cyanotypes on plant material from the local area would be a minimal-impact approach. Putting images on cloth of natural fibers would have greater impact, but could be removed after a set time. Cyanotypes can be toned to brown to reduce visual impact.
 

darkroommike

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There are some film emulsions coated on Washi paper, sustainable and very traditional. On the other hand, if you want to talk "biodegradable" you could use nitrocellulose for your film base, now that's some serious biodegradability. And please, folks, I'm kidding.
 

AgX

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-) there is no NC foil of practical thickness on the market
-) it has good degrading resistance
-) it would not combust out of itself, thus your joke is not apt
 

AgX

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In this discussion we must be aware that degrading of "biodegradable" materials at its best is based on composting. But such is not well comparable to just being placed on the ground, let alone being hung up in the air.
 

darkroommike

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AgX said:
-) there is no NC foil of practical thickness on the market
-) it has good degrading resistance
-) it would not combust out of itself, thus your joke is not apt
Click to expand...

Some folks just don't understand the concept of HUMOR but in rebuttal of my JOKE (sigh).
  1. Nitrocellulose is not hard to make
  2. Biodegradability of cellulose based palstics here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0141391097001511
  3. Spontaneous combustion of nitrocellulose here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1062289649800729
Try not to spoil another person's joke in the future.
 

AgX

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No single sheet of NC in air will combust spontaneously.
Nitrocellullose is something other than just a Cellulose-based plastic. It is was used as lacquer outdoors thus is of certain resistance.
And as explained above, biodegradability is a vague term.

Nitrocellulose is not hard to make, neither a thin foil. But I guess, a thick film as film base needs more hassle.
 

darkroommike

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Nitrocellulose is also know as gun cotton and as you pointed out it will not spontaneously combust in most circumstances (still treating my JOKE as a serious reply FFS) it is a wee bit sensitive to heat(friction) and spark. I suggest that if your nitrocellulose film is too thick that you take a surface grinder to the film to make it thinner or if it is too thick you use a TIG welder to laminate several layers together. BTW it can be extruded at any thickness.
 
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