Big chunky grains

I have been trying Ilford Delta 3200, developed at 6400 and Fuji Neopan 1600 and have been disappointed with the results. Do you know of a grainer film other than these too? I have ordered some Kodak 3200 but I suspect this is fast and fine too...thanks

Try developing in Dektol (paper developer). That's suppose to give an almost charcoal drawing effect sort of grain.

sounds like that's what I need, thanks!

Developing in Dektol is going to kill any semblance of a "normal" tonal range, but if that's what you want then go for it. If I want the soot and chalk effect, I'd rather create it at the printing stage and preserve as much shadow and highlight detail I can in the negative. If you want grain, and you can get plenty from Delta 3200, simply frame your subject loosely and crop aggressively. That will magnify the grain sure enough.

Try developing in dilute rodinal at high temperatures. I have never personally tried this but I knew a lot of art students who were doing this to get grainy results.

I going to be making lith prints so if you know if any of these suggestions can be used when lith printing I would be grateful, thank you

carmenloofah said:

... Do you know of a grainer film other than these too? I have ordered some Kodak 3200 but I suspect this is fast and fine too...thanks

Click to expand...

This was my first (and only, so far) experience with TMAX 3200: http://www.pbase.com/nickinnagoya/image/89341645

Or you can try dipping Tri-X in Dektol: http://www.pbase.com/nickinnagoya/dektol_developer

thanks, I'm hoping the lith developer and the overexposure will give me the texture and charcoal like grain I'm after....I may stick with Fuji 1600 and push it much further. I see your photo as quite fine grain, I'm taking charcoal like grains!

If you want to lith print I'd highly suggest a thinner than normal negative. I've always had the best results with a -1 or evey -2 development for lith printing.

Rodinal 1+25 will accentutate the granularity of the film
and give you a fairly normal tonal range.

A starting time would be 11 minutes, and expose at 1250 - 1600.

The high pH what does the trick.
Raising the temps for Rodinal doesn't do anything but reduce your control,
by making the reaction go faster. It also is harder to keep the temp steady,
so it is harder to hit your target development.

PyroCat will - like Rodinal - show the grain clearly.

FX1 would also do the trick.

In each case, you'll get sharp and clean grain, because that is what is in the film.
It will look like a 0000 Rapidograph pen stippled your image.

Printing on a higher grade of paper will bring this out further.
If you want to reduce the acuity of the grain.... make it lumpy and less engraved,
overexpose the image by a stop or two. Be hard to print, though.

Finally, you can try 'pushing' a slower film, like HP5 or FP4.
Tri-X in Rodinal is a classic, although improvements in the stuff recently
have taken the '60s right out of it.

Maybe one of the Efke 400 films will be a better choice, dunno. Push it to 1250 -1600.

Gotta run, I'm having a flashback.

dektol as a film developer can give quite "normal" results too
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Hi,

if you're lith printing, just make sure to overexpose the print by a LOT in the enlarger for a very early snatch point. I've attached a print I made the other day. It's from a 4x5 negative, Tri-X in Pyrocat-HD developer. When I make a regular 11x14 print from this, I can't see grain at all. The lith print is different as you can see. This is from an 8x10 print and it's very grainy.
May I suggest Fotokemika Varycon for grainy results when lith printing? It is a beautiful paper in lith. I used Forte Polygrade for this print, but it's no longer made.

Basically, as long as you get your printing done right with respect to grain, it doesn't matter much how grainy your negative is - as far as lith printing is concerned.

Hope this helps.

- Thomas

carmenloofah said:

thanks, I'm hoping the lith developer and the overexposure will give me the texture and charcoal like grain I'm after....I may stick with Fuji 1600 and push it much further. I see your photo as quite fine grain, I'm taking charcoal like grains!

Click to expand...

thank you Thomas, I like the effect very much but I will be using Foma Fomatone paper and may try some tinting too.

Yeah, push till you can't push any more. I've seen Tri-X pushed to 6400 that looks like the pepper fog you get during a long batch of lith printing. Go for it, experiment. Break the rules.

Neopan 1600 and rodinal 1+50 or stronger and rate the film at 640.

AND print using a condenser enlarger (not diffusion) or even better a point source if you have access to one.

If you are using Fomatone, I don't think you really need to worry how much grain the negative has. Even with a low grain negative, Fomatone has huge grain....I don't think the negative would have much effect. I'd try what you have.

You want to find some cold stored Kodak 2475 Recording Film. Develop in HC-110 Dil B. Grain the size of golf balls. And remember, you want some that's been cold stored. It will be many years out of date by now...

thank you everyone I am saving all these experiments you suggest to try out after I have submitted my project.