Beware scammer prowling WTB section

Sean said:

I've done a few things that should hopefully stop this, thanks for the info

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I know of at least one delightfully sneaky trick that Sean has up his sleeve for dealing with problem members - he is indeed a creative artist.

Thanks Sean for keeping us safe and again for the OP tipping us off!

but- WHAT IF the guy really DOES live in spain - and the original listing from ebay happens to be his..? where does that leave honest people??

I guess i'm lucky - but i've never been scammed well- in a significant way- I even sent a western union transfer to costa rica once for a Rollei 6000 camera body that was on ebay - zero feedback too. Got the camera and it was a sweet gem for an unreal price because nobody wanted to bid on it out of fear... just goes to show you that a little trust can take you a long way.

He just emailed me last night with the 58 Hexanon with finder that I am seeking. I guess he hasn't gotten back to me because there isn't one currently on e-bay.

Got the same email from the guy in Spain. He's still working here.

Jim Rice said:

He just emailed me last night with the 58 Hexanon with finder that I am seeking. I guess he hasn't gotten back to me because there isn't one currently on e-bay.

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I guess that's why I haven't received my pictures of the Mamiya 7 Kirk-L Bracket

Sparky said:

but- WHAT IF the guy really DOES live in spain - and the original listing from ebay happens to be his..? where does that leave honest people??

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I've read some of the e-mail correspondence, and this one is definitely very suspicious. He used photos from a well-known ebay dealer--one whom I've bought from myself and who is not in Spain--and at the same time claimed that the item was not on ebay.

lol, I have just found, word for word, the same PM from adioman on a Swedish sales site.

See here, second from the bottom

Anyone know jaybob20? He's been trying to sell me his horseman 6x12 and now I'm cautious of everyone lol, this is more of a verification from others who might know him?

Too bad we don't have a ratings system on here for people who have already traded/sold things that they are trustworthy. But doubt that will happen when you can't even get panoramics to be big enough to see in the gallery lol!


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

We tried implementing a ratings system, but not enough people contributed to it to make it useful. It works on sites like Amazon, eBay, and tripadvisor, because there are so many thousands of users that the few who rate transactions seem to amount to something, but there just aren't enough users on APUG.

^What about a sticky thread called 'Feedback for Sales and Trades'

If we made a rule that the username of the seller/trader needs to be in your review, we could merely search that thread.

It would work like a charm, no moderation or development cost from Sean needed, user supported, sounds like a win-win

I had the same thing with my WTB. Here's the info he sent:

Home address is
C./ Calatrava 10-12,
bajos. Barcelona,
Catalunya 08017.
Spain

contact me Via E-mail...martinandy6070@gmail.com

I'm with Andy, I'd like a review section. I've had such a fun time buying and selling to people on here, I'd like to sing their praises.

One aspect of this could use some clarification. The OP said the presumed scammer said he lived in Spain and proposed a bank wire transfer.

Here in the US, bank wire transfers between individuals are rare and (as a form of payment with recourse) are cause for suspicion. But as I recall it's very common in Europe and that, in itself, might not be cause for suspicion.

Can our European members clarify whether these transfers between individuals are common?

+1

Indeed. I have made a few purchases, some big and some small but always with a lot of feel-good. I would most certainly contribute to a review system. Is there not a comment or reputation on profile feature?

I know on the mountain biking forum there's a reputation rating and you can leave comments on the profile.

The prob with that is Sean and/or mods need to be involved....

I think we take the lead on this, just make sure not to break any Apug terms of serv (ie no fighting, drama, personal info like Fred A Smith of 100 Main St is a bad guy, he smells like old cheese and so did his camera I bought....)

Aren't the classifieds for subscribers only anyway? How about only subscribers can leave comments or ratings on subscribers. I think there is enough camaraderie between subscribers to self-regulate this.

I'll start a thread, all's we need is it made sticky and we need to keep it clean and factual

Ie, bought a m2 from user 'johnsmith1000', great transaction

mgb74 said:

One aspect of this could use some clarification. The OP said the presumed scammer said he lived in Spain and proposed a bank wire transfer.

Here in the US, bank wire transfers between individuals are rare and (as a form of payment with recourse) are cause for suspicion. But as I recall it's very common in Europe and that, in itself, might not be cause for suspicion.

Can our European members clarify whether these transfers between individuals are common?

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I guess so. At least since between the Euro-currency member states a agreement had been made that all bank-wire-transfers would only cost as much as a national transfer.

Such international transfers only need a special form indicating the international codings as long as a universal form sheet has not been installed yet in all member states.


Maybe where Paypal has been offered people might resort to this system but, aside of this that and the included buyer guarantees, bank-wire-transfer would for me be the way to go as long I'm convinced about the receiver being bonafide.

Ghostman said:

Aren't the classifieds for subscribers only anyway? How about only subscribers can leave comments or ratings on subscribers. I think there is enough camaraderie between subscribers to self-regulate this.

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I will post it in the for sale, but having to be a Sunscriber to post a feedback of a Seller/Trader is not acceptable because we have no way to enforce that....this is the bet if a Troll appears we will know....

The classifieds are for both: plain members and subscribers. Though only subscribers can start a thread.

i boughta 10x8 camera from the US and the seller wanted a bank transfer, UK to US was instant, US branch of UK bank to the sellers bank was painfully slow.

So yes bank transfers are common in Europe, I can do them online, the US Banking system is way behind in this respect and relies on the Postal service for confirmations with some banks.

Ian

I work for a bank in the US. Bank transfers, as in wiring funds, is very common but not so much person to person for something like a camera purchase. More like for certain large investments, moving large funds from one account to another or buying property and wiring money to an escrow company as a down payments at a home purchase closing. That said anyone could do it easily by just walking into their bank and requesting a wire transfer, and generally if done before 1pm its at the other bank the same day or early the next morning. That said with Google Pay and Paypal its is much easier than the bank for wire transfers (which can cost $20-35 but is often free for customers with decent account balances or with mortgages at the bank). Also some banks have recently started, Wells Fargo, Bank of America and Chase in particular, have set up the ability to move funds from one bank to another unrelated account all done online. I have sent money to my sister this way, Wells Fargo to Chase. First time usually takes a few days though. I've also moved money from my Wells Fargo account to an online HSBC and ING Orange accounts the same way. No charge but takes 2-3 days to post.

More concerning to me would be the whole sending you photos of the camera they are supposedly selling from a completely unrelated eBay auction!

Wire transfers are very common in Europe. Checks are quite rare in most countries. In the US, international wire transfers--sending and receiving--can incur high fees, so often aren't worth doing except for large transactions.

As far as the feedback thread in the classifieds goes, we can do that, but I don't think it's going to be that informative. Many sellers here don't sell many things, and those that do are well known by their consistency.

Really, the way to know how trustworthy someone is is by watching their APUG behavior. If they post regularly on a variety of legitimate topics and seem to know about and be interested in analogue photography, if they've met people face-to-face, if they've participated in print exchanges, and they have a reputation to maintain in the community, and they generally seem ok, they are probably ok. I'd trust that more than any rating system or even feedback about sales.

If you have a legitimate problem with a transaction, APUG can't be legally responsible, since these are transactions between individuals, but contact the moderators, and we can try to help, and if we find a bad apple, we can ban that person, or maybe just refund their subscription, so they can't sell in the classifieds anymore. Most problem transactions are the result of incompetence or ineptitude more than outright dishonesty. In a number of cases we've tracked people down and helped them work things out with the other party. In the rare case that someone has an intractible problem with a seller or buyer, it becomes public without having a dedicated feedback system.