Beware: Fake Contax III on ebay

[zanxion72]

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Zeiss-Ikon-C...250mm-lens-excellent-recent-CLA-/281729161842

Seller has been notified about this, it has been reported to ebay. Beware this is by no means a genuine Contax III.

 

[railwayman3]

For interest, how do you identify that it's not genuine ? The seller seems to have good feedback, so maybe they are not aware.

 

[ronnies]

The top plate is from a Kiev 4 judging by the shape of the meter housing and the fact the film speeds are in GOST.

Ronnie

 

[paul_c5x4]

A genuine one: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/301665038827

 

[zanxion72]

For interest, how do you identify that it's not genuine ? The seller seems to have good feedback, so maybe they are not aware.

I had notified the seller with details about it and he said that he had included the fact that it is a fake in the description. I cannot see it though.
Here goes his feedback. He has certainly an itch for trouble.

 

[railwayman3]

The top plate is from a Kiev 4 judging by the shape of the meter housing and the fact the film speeds are in GOST.

Ronnie

Ah, thanks, I'm not familiar with the Contaxes, but I was guessing that it was something to do with their similarities with the Kievs. If I even want to go down the Zeiss Ikon route, I shall clearly have to do some homework first.

 

[railwayman3]

I had notified the seller with details about it and he said that he had included the fact that it is a fake in the description. I cannot see it though.
Here goes his feedback. He has certainly an itch for trouble.

I can't see anything stated about "fake" anywhere, in fact the detail in the description gives every indication of some knowledge of the cameras and that this one is a rare collectable. His other listings include a lot of Soviet lenses, and that he is a collector himself, so, as you indicate, he's prejudicing 100% feedback if he really is "trying-one-on" with this, rather than it being a genuine error.

 

[chrisaisenbrey]

I wonder if it is really a fake or perhaps a contax produced by Zeiss East in Jena under Russian control…before the factory was moved to the Soviet Union…

 

[railwayman3]

I wonder if it is really a fake or perhaps a contax produced by Zeiss East in Jena under Russian control…before the factory was moved to the Soviet Union…

Apparently the "GOST" speed ratings were used by the Soviet Union from 1951 to 1986, so that bit of the camera can't be pre-war ?

 

[zanxion72]

There is no way it could be something like that. Those were Kiev-III and where a lot different than that. The Contax-III and the early Kiev-III have a taller rewind/gost/din knob. They also have a taller light meter box. Look here http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?1371027606

At a glance it might look like a Contax-IIIa, but even then the front should had those smaller distinct viewfinder/rangefinder windows. Also there are no Contax-IIIa cameras with GOST writing on the film speed setting knob, plus the shutter speed knob is for sure not from a IIIa.

This is definitely a fake.

 

[AgX]

I had notified the seller with details about it and he said that he had included the fact that it is a fake in the description. I cannot see it though.
Here goes his feedback. He has certainly an itch for trouble.

He meanwhile added the remark that the top cap is from a Kiev.

 

[zanxion72]

That is something. But it is still not "Excellent quality, fully original and highly collectable classic camera produced in Dresden, Germany. Complete with a genuine brown leather case with strap, non-original take-up spool and front lens cap. Hard to find in this excellent condition."

Anyway, I hope the buyers get note of that. At least if it gets reasonably high it might be worth of the nice collapsible Z. Sonnar it comes with.

 

[Lamar]

Well just the fact that he is using deceiving titles and descriptions makes me doubt any of his other claims about its condition and recent CLA.

 

[darkosaric]

Is there a chance that original Contax was repaired with some Kiev parts? In that way it is impossible to know for sure is it a fake or not...

 

[Grytpype]

Not so much a fake, more a 'bitza'. As darkosaric suggests, someone had a Contax III with a faulty meter and faulty shutter, and decided to make it into a usable camera with the help of a Kiev 4.

Front plate: genuine. Anyone capable of doing such a good job of taking off the Kiev logo, engraving Contax, and re-plating, would have made a MUCH better job of faking the rest!

Meter and top-plate: obviously Kiev.

Top-casting: almost certainly Kiev - probably necessary with the Kiev meter. The top covering looks Kiev-like, not Contax leather.

Back: definitely genuine, for too many reasons to list.

Body: almost certainly genuine. There is no evidence of the Kiev 4 flash connection on the inside, so it would have to be Contax, Kiev II or Kiev III. Contax is much more likely.

Shutter: almost certainly Kiev. The sprocket spindle appears to be black. Every Contax that I have seen has an aluminium-coloured sprocket spindle. Whoever did the swap put the Contax focus wheel on the Kiev shutter (there's a slot down the middle on the milled edge).

All the seller's current items, and all the completed listings I can see, are photographic, so he ought to know what he is selling, but many quite big sellers seem surprisingly ignorant, and presumably don't have time to research everything online.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

He added an addendum at the bottom of the description:

On 23-Jun-15 at 12:51:09 BST, seller added the following information:

The top of the camera seems to come from a later Kiev-4 camera. The lens is genuine, it appears to be Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2/5cm.

 

[summicron1]

seller now notes that the top of the camera is a kiev.

 

[railwayman3]

"The top of the camera seems to come from a later Kiev-4 camera. The lens is genuine, it appears to be Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2/5cm."

Still seems very economical-with-the-truth.....if the original listing was a genuine error, he'd do much better to relist with a proper detailed description, including which parts are original. An experienced collector will know what to look for, but a beginner could easily be deceived.

It might be an honestly-repaired or rebuilt camera....what it isn't, is a fully original pre-WW2 Camera from Germany.

 

[frank]

Also with non-original take up spool.

 

[AgX]

"The top of the camera seems to come from a later Kiev-4 camera."

To be fair to the guy, that "seems" may language-wise either be related to the cap being non-original or that it originates from just that specific Kiev model.

 

[Dali]

If the camera description is that inaccurate, I would also question the lens... Real fake Zeiss Sonnar are easier to find than genuine ones, not to mention the opposite (real Russian lenses with German glass)...

In this regard, I have an interesting story about 2 Zeiss Sonnar lenses with the exact same serial number: one in LTM, the other one with a Contax mount. LTM Zeiss Sonnar are pretty rare but this one was clearly identified by some specialists as genuine. I own the Contax one and it bears the Zeiss engraving on the barrel of the rear group. According to the serial number, it is a wartime lens but I bought it with a post-war Contax IIa... Strange isn't it?

So, which one is genuine: The rare but clearly identified as such LTM Sonnar or my Contax Sonnar? Honestly, I don't know...

 

[cuthbert]

If the camera description is that inaccurate, I would also question the lens... Real fake Zeiss Sonnar are easier to find than genuine ones, not to mention the opposite (real Russian lenses with German glass)...

In this regard, I have an interesting story about 2 Zeiss Sonnar lenses with the exact same serial number: one in LTM, the other one with a Contax mount. LTM Zeiss Sonnar are pretty rare but this one was clearly identified by some specialists as genuine. I own the Contax one and it bears the Zeiss engraving on the barrel of the rear group. According to the serial number, it is a wartime lens but I bought it with a post-war Contax IIa... Strange isn't it?

So, which one is genuine: The rare but clearly identified as such LTM Sonnar or my Contax Sonnar? Honestly, I don't know...

Usually Sonnars made by Kiev Arsenal are coated, and the fakes are T branded, this one is difficult to say, it LOOKS uncoated but I'm not sure.

The camera is definitely a Franken-Contax_Kiev.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I sent it a question asking when the seller was going to correct the title to reflex that the camera is not a Zeiss Ikon Contax III.

 

[zanxion72]

The lens on that seems to be a genuine early post war one. So far I have never came across a fake collapsible Zeiss Sonnar 5cm. I have seen though many of them with their front glass replaced with a coated one. Not sure if that coated glass came from a Jupiter or a latter Z S, but it is certainly not right.

Btw, the listing has ended due to "there was an error in the listing.".