Best way to preserve rare bulk load film- freeze in loader, load all at once and freeze cassettes, take out and freeze partial rolls?

So I acquired a 150ft roll of techpan that has been freezer stored all its life.

I have not bulk loaded before and also got an AP daylight loader. Seeing as this film was expensive and more importantly likely not replaceable I would like to know the best way to bulk load and continue to store it.

I'm wondering what is the best option to minimize risks of condensations and multiple freeze/thaws.

So it seems my first option would be to put it in the loader, then load a few cassettes, and freeze the entire loader with the bulk roll still in there. Then take out and let that thaw and load more later and freeze again. This would mean I couldn't use the (expensive) AP daylight loader for anything else while it's loaded in there and I don't have another one. Not sure if there is any risk freezing the whole loader itself.

Or put it in the loader and load all 35mm cassettes in a short period of time and freeze the loaded cassettes. This would take up more space and give me a lot less flexibility to decide later to load short rolls and choose which cassettes to use since I would need a lot at once.

Or load a number of cassettes to freeze but far from the whole thing (say 5-10), take the remainder of the bulk roll out and then seal it back up and freeze that. This risks me messing something up opening back up the loader and unloading the remainder of the bulk roll to put back in storage. not sure how difficult this is.

So I'm wonder what is the least risky and best way to control condensations from forming among those options. for any of these options the frozen stuff would be put in bags and desiccant packs could be added.

Personally, I'd thaw the film and just use it and not worry about keeping it frozen. It took me nearly four years to get through a 100 foot roll of 35mm film, I just kept it on a shelf in my dark room and it stayed good the entire time. YMMV, and I'm sure there will be many opinions about this.

One caution is that the sealed can from the factory has the humidity controlled. Once the seal is broken, so folks dislike re-freezing as if the humidity has become higher, you might get Ice Crystals forming.

in all three methods you pose, it is very important to seal the package away from the Air and allow everything to warm up to room temperature to avoid condensation.

cmacd123 said:

One caution is that the sealed can from the factory has the humidity controlled. Once the seal is broken, so folks dislike re-freezing as if the humidity has become higher, you might get Ice Crystals forming.

in all three methods you pose, it is very important to seal the package away from the Air and allow everything to warm up to room temperature to avoid condensation.

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Yeah that was my consideration as to which method would be less likely to be able to introduce more air/moisture by refreezing.

I was thinking desiccant and sucking air out of the bags before freezing could help.

Now that I think about it maybe getting a vacuum sealer and vacuum sealing bags before refreezing would be a good idea. though looking a vacuum sealers is a bit overwhelming for what would be powerful enough and not expensive.

I also have a 400ft roll of ektachrome that I will need to divide up and load onto smaller rolls, so I will have to find a way to refreeze that too without moisture issues.

I am currently most leaning towards option 1 of freezing the whole loader with the bulk roll on there. I guess I could vacuum seal that before refreezing.

Another question. For reloading standard film canisters (leaving a bit of the leader out on a spent commercial roll and taping to it), what type of tape works best and would hold up to being frozen?

That was a concern I had if I were to load canisters and then freeze them for later use, if freezing weakened/lifted that tape and then I would get screwed later using the roll.

I’d allow to come to ambient temperature. Rewind 50 feet or so onto a empty spool to re-freeze (so tape the end down, control the moisture then put it in the can and reseal). Put the 100’ or whatever is left in a bulk loader, spool out half a dozen rolls and leave the rest in the loader, control the moisture, seal and keep in a cool/ambient temperature but don’t bother re-freezing.

You’ll probably use it up in five years, and will still have a little supply for the future

I'm with replies nos 2 and 6 but, if "cool ambient temperature" is hard to maintain where you are, refrigeration rather than freezing would make things less complicated for you.

I have kept loaders (the Füllfix ones) refrigerated in zip-lock bags without problems. Nowadays I don't bother.

Do what Bill said. Don't freeze bulk-loaded cassettes. Definitely don't put a bulk loader in the freezer - that plastic is not meant to be frozen and thawed.
If the room where you have your bulk loader is always around 20 degrees, just put the film in it and keep it out. That film is slow and won't degrade quickly.

xonefs said:

Another question. For reloading standard film canisters (leaving a bit of the leader out on a spent commercial roll and taping to it), what type of tape works best and would hold up to being frozen?

That was a concern I had if I were to load canisters and then freeze them for later use, if freezing weakened/lifted that tape and then I would get screwed later using the roll.

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I don't freeze/thaw my bulk film, loader, or cassettes, but this is the tape I use:

I see you are in Florida.
Whatever you do, do it somewhere and when the humidity is as low as you can find.
Do you know anyone with a walk-in freezer that you could work in ?

You don't have to refreeze the film after you load it. You can just refrigerate it.

I use Scotch tape to affix the film to the leaders of recycled cassettes. Works fine. Just go all the way around. I've never had a failure. The Scotch tape I use is Multi Mask Gloss Tape. Don't buy any cheap stuff.

MattKing said:

Do you know anyone with a walk-in freezer that you could work in ?

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I hope you are kidding because that is a horrible idea.

Patrick Robert James said:

You don't have to refreeze the film after you load it. You can just refrigerate it.

I use Scotch tape to affix the film to the leaders of recycled cassettes. Works fine. Just go all the way around. I've never had a failure. The Scotch tape I use is Multi Mask Gloss Tape. Don't buy any cheap stuff.

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Even better if the refrigerator reduces the humidity inside the refrigerator.

Patrick Robert James said:

I hope you are kidding because that is a horrible idea.

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You are unlikely to find anywhere with less moisture in the air

You could, with a dark, darkroom, unspool several double arm spans of film directly off the bulk roll, allowing it, the freed section, to recoil as you work, then cut the unrolled lenght at the bulk roll and place in a light proof film or paper box, to adjust to temperature.

Place the opened bulk roll in the fridge, vacuumed sealed if possible until you next want to roll more cassettes.

Keeping in mind that, your spread arms are approximately, in most cases, your height as well, copy O.Barneck, who used the double arm method to cut his 35mm film for 135 cassettes, and cut your now acclimated film in the box, using this method to measure for long rolls, or from center of chest, to single arm width, for shorter rolls.

You can load your cassettes in the dark, and cut leaders when the film is in and closed in the cassettes.

No loader needed, and the felt lips of the cassettes should prevent and dust that landed on the film from passing through to your exposures surfaces.

As I understand it, refrigerator storage is so close to freezer storage, there is little differences, say in a year or two.

Good luck and do no forget to wipe out your pre-used cassettes with finger covered masking tape, just to clear out any dust that may have entered it while opened.

Cheers.

MattKing said:

You are unlikely to find anywhere with less moisture in the air

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I can tell you've never lived in Florida.... It isn't the freezer that is the problem.

I gave up on using loaders (I have several).
One of the reasons is that sometimes I have problems with scratches. But I hate the fogging in the last frame. Last but not least - I don't have room in the freezer for loaders. Even if they are refrigerated, there will be a serious problem with condensation later.
I wind film in cassettes by hand, in the dark. It's quick and easy.
I keep the large rolls in the freezer at -19/-21 degrees Celsius, and the cassettes and small rolls in the refrigerator. All are packed in ziplock bags. When I need something, I leave it at room temperature for at least two hours without taking it out of the bag.

it seems like my black and white film lasts forever... i just shot a roll of tri-x that I found in my moms garage in chicago. it had been there nearly 15 years, through every winter and summer. pictures came out pretty good at box speed, maybe 10% softer or something.

lamerko said:

I gave up on using loaders (I have several).
One of the reasons is that sometimes I have problems with scratches. But I hate the fogging in the last frame. Last but not least - I don't have room in the freezer for loaders. Even if they are refrigerated, there will be a serious problem with condensation later.
I wind film in cassettes by hand, in the dark. It's quick and easy.
I keep the large rolls in the freezer at -19/-21 degrees Celsius, and the cassettes and small rolls in the refrigerator. All are packed in ziplock bags. When I need something, I leave it at room temperature for at least two hours without taking it out of the bag.

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that's a great idea. i don't like loaders either, i had problems with vinegar syndrome trying to work through a whole roll and keeping it in a cool dry place at the same time. also i hate scratches. can you give me a little more info on your process? I have never hand rolled film before. wear gloves i'm assuming?

Yes, I wear nitrile gloves.
I use standard metal cartridges with protruding "tails" - a small cut from the original film. They can be bought from eBay quite cheaply. You also need a hand crank to wind the film, scissors and scotch tape.
Before entering the dark room, I do a little preparation in the light.
1. I stick scotch tape on the tail;
2. I group the cassettes in five by sticking the free end of the tape to another cassette; I usually roll 10 films - two rows of five cassettes, glued to each other;
3. In the dark room, I prepare the box with the mass film, the cassettes and the scissors in a convenient place.
4. I put on vinyl gloves;
In the dark:
1. I open the big box with the film. I put the roll on the small cover and dissolve about two pads of the film;
2. I take the first cassette (I peel it off from the others), slightly lift the tail with my finger, being careful not to hook the tape;
3. I tuck the end of the film under the tail so that it goes slightly inside the cassette;
4. I align the edges of the tail with the film and stick the tape to the back of the film;
5. I attach the crank to the cassette and make 25-27 full turns;
6. I cut the film and continue to the next tape;

Living in the cold north, bulk loading and regularly storing stuff in the freezer, I've come to know a bit about freezing film.
Humidity will come 90% from condensation. The ambient air is rarely a problem. What happens is that when something cold goes back to a warmer environment, the humidity that's in the air will settle on every surface that's cold. Warm air can absorb a lot more humidity than cold air. So, you want to avoid the water from coming in contact with the film.

The best solution is to put the bulk film, or even the entire bulk loader in a plastic ziploc bag before putting it in the freezer. When you need some film, you have to plan ahead, so the night before you pull the bag out of the freezer and very importantly, you leave it inside the bag making sure that the exterior air never gets in contact with the interior air. The next morning, when you pull the loader from the bag, it will be very dry and ready to use.

As for the cassettes, like everybody says: put tape on both sides of the film!
If not, it's just asking for trouble.

Instead of buying/making a crank for winding film into the cassettes being reused, use your camera's rewind crank, with or without the door left on the camera, as no all backs are removable.

eli griggs said:

Instead of buying/making a crank for winding film into the cassettes being reused, use your camera's rewind crank, with or without the door left on the camera, as no all backs are removable.

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I used to do it this way, but you'll need an old, broken camera. If using a working camera, the lens must be removed and a protective cap put on. You also have to be very careful not to touch the curtain - you will be working in the dark.
Rewinding cassettes in this way is inconvenient. The lever is too small and easily dropped. Care must be taken not to scratch the film on the camera.
A hand crank costs only a few dollars - a cheap and convenient solution.

I routinely pull a couple of feet from a bulk roll and tape it to a spool, wind with my fingers, then put it in the canister. It's easy. There are never any scratches or dust. You just need to know where the scissors, tape, and cap of the cassette are in the dark.

Or just put a popsicle stick in the cassette's drive and turn that instead.
On one of my Lloyd's loaders it says:
31 turns=36 exp
24 turns=24 exp
19 turns=18 exp
13 turns=10 exp