Best way to get grain and hi contrast from 400TX..

Jersey Vic

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
3,926
Location
Tivoli, NY
Format
Holga
My friend has an idea for a portrait shoot using 400TX and is looking for hi-contrast and some very noticable grain...

I said shoot it at 1600 and push development 50% using D76 1:1 or Rodinal 1:25 but we are looking for some other ideas.

All ideas appreciated!

Thanks
Victor
 

Samuel Hotton

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
383
Format
Medium Format
I've heard of using Dektol stock solution for 2 minutes at 72 degrees F, gentle aggitation, 400ASA.
Sam H.
 

Guillaume Zuili

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 3, 2005
Messages
2,922
Location
Los Angeles
Format
Multi Format
Put your film in cold water, let it stay for a couple of minutes then pour the developer, make it boil, fix and rince in cold water. Add salt and pepper and enjoy !
Garlic optional...
 

Tom Hoskinson

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
3,867
Location
Southern Cal
Format
Multi Format
Crawleys FX16 (Grain Effects on High Speed Films)


You might try Geoffrey Crawley's FX16 (Grain Effects on High Speed Films)

Water at 90F 500ml
Metol 0.5 grams
Glycin 0.5 grams
Sodium Sulfite anhydrous 4 grams
5% soln Pinacryptol Yellow 250ml
Water to make 1 liter

Source: British Journal of Photography Annual 1965, page 77

Crawley stated: "This developer has been specially designed to produce an obtrusive grain structure on films of 400 ASA and over, whilst retaining excellent contour sharpness. This retention of sharpness assists in preventing the loss of image quality often found where grain texture has been utilized to give a special effect."

I suspect that the Pinacryptol Yellow can be safely left out of the recipe.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
19,974
Location
Honolulu, HI
Format
Large Format
Tri-X/Dektol is the classic method for this look. Hunt around and you should turn up some development times and dilutions.
 

tjaded

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
1,020
Location
San Francisc
Format
Multi Format
Develop using the martini method...shake the tank for the entire development. That and use paper developer instead of film developer.
 

jgcull

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
920
Location
nc
When I first set up my darkroom I used replenisher to process a few rolls of film, not realizing it wasn't developer. I love the prints I got from those negatives. They had a beautiful, hard contrast and sort of looked like they were sketched with charcoal.
 

SPS731

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
28
Location
Colorado, US
Format
Large Format
If doesn't feel like experimenting with new developers and agitation techniques he could shoot 35mm Tri-X developed in D-76 1:1 with agitation of 4 full tank inversions (over and back) in 5 seconds, every 30 seconds.

When enlarged to 16x20 it gives a sharp and large grain structure that is nice when printed on a condenser enlarger. If your friend doesn't need prints that large he could compose using less of the film frame, and still raise the enlarger to 16x20 height.

This method will give better shadow detail and a full range negative compared to extreme pushing of the film.
 

jd callow

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Messages
8,466
Location
Milan
Format
Multi Format
Samuel Hotton said:
I've heard of using Dektol stock solution for 2 minutes at 72 degrees F, gentle aggitation, 400ASA.
Sam H.
Click to expand...

I plan on doing something similar to what your friend is after and I was advised to use dektol. I plan on trying to tame the contrast created by the paper developer and so will probably be using a far more ditute solution, less agitation and a lower EI.
 

fschifano

Member
Joined
May 12, 2003
Messages
3,196
Location
Valley Strea
Format
Multi Format
Dektol, 1+2 for about 5 minutes at 20C. Timing is not that critical, so if you go for 6 minutes it's no big deal. Agitate normally, 5 seconds every 30 seconds. Rate the film at box speed. Worked for me.
 

Samuel Hotton

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
383
Format
Medium Format
Memory serves that Tri-x pushed in Accufine gave large grain and contrast. I think it was in stock solution at 1000 ASA.
Sam H.
 

Michael W

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,594
Location
Sydney
Format
Multi Format
I've heard about the Dektol method but has anyone tried developing film with Polymax paper dev? Should it give the same result as Dektol?
 

nicolai

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
190
Location
San Francisc
Format
Multi Format
Push as far as it will go, soup in Rodinal and shake the hell out of it?

I'm really intrigued by the formula Tom posted. Has anyone tried it?

Since a smaller format is obviously going to be granier at equivalent final enlargement sizes, you may want to check out half frame 135, like an Olympus Pen F or FT SLR. There's a 40mm/1.4 lens that will focus down to about 6 inches, so there's plenty of room to fill the frame if that's desired.

And this may be too much effort, or not possible due to format, but if they're shooting LF, they can shoot on paper in sun to get extreme contrast, and shoot the paper in low light (will obviously need an interneg if they want to make wet prints from the film).

The graniest I've ever gotten has been Ilford Delta 3200 in Diafine. This is about 1/4 of a standard 35mm frame:
 

Attachments

  • delta3200-diafine.jpg
    163.5 KB · Views: 176

Samuel Hotton

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
383
Format
Medium Format
What a pity that 2475 High speed recording or Royal x pan is no longer about. GAF 125 used to have chunky grain when processed in DK-50. Super double X used to be grainy with a interesting look. All gone!
Sam H.
 

Samuel Hotton

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
383
Format
Medium Format
Thinking about this and listening to what others have said, I think the Tri-x in Rodinal is the film / developer combination. Also the idea of the half frame camera is good. I looked at the coverage of my Olympus Pen half frame with its 38 mm lens, then put a 35mm lens on my nikon. I found that is shows about 1/3 more coverage than the half frame Pen slr. So, I think I would use a 35mm focal length lens on my modern full frame 35 camera of choice, fill the frame only 2/3rds (at most) with my subject, soup my film in Rodinal at a dilution rate to give punch and contrast. I like the idea of using the center of the lens and not the edges as would be the case if using a half frame camera. HC110 at the right dilution might be great as well. Sounds like an project to try.
Sam H.
 

jgcull

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
920
Location
nc
I've developed film (accidentally) in replenisher instead of developer and I liked what I got. If I remember correctly, it was HC110. This was my very first run of film after I'd set up my darkroom. It took me a few rolls to figure out I'd done it wrong.

I'd like to see what you do, when you've done it.
 

Attachments

  • img262.jpg
    51.1 KB · Views: 147

Shangheye

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
1,092
Location
Belgium
Format
Multi Format
Personally I think grain is in the eye of the beholder, so always best to see an image for a given recipe. Below is a link to a TX400 image developed in Rodinal at 1+4 (20C), standard time recommended on MAssive Chart. I imagine you could increase on that with a move to 1+25 or pushing to 800, depending on what you are looking for in terms of contrast in the scene, and retaining hilights. Hope that helps. K

http://www.pbase.com/shangheye/image/85199201/medium
 

DaveOttawa

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
285
Location
Ottawa, Cana
Format
35mm RF
If you are prepared to try a different film you will find Ilford delta 3200 can produce obvious but sharp grain.
The trick is shoot 35mm, rate it 1-2 stops less than 3200, develop for longer than advertised in higher strength (e.g. 1:10) Agfa Rodinal. This will increase contrast (it is rather low contrast normally, e.g. in D76) and will turn up the grain to 11. The final touch is to print with a high contrast filter (4 or more).
I went this route trying to find a replacement for Kodak recoding film which was my previous "grain fx" film.
Example (some nudity, just so you know): http://www.pbase.com/mononation/image/65663434

The Rodinal 1:10 idea with this film I owe to Les Maclean from a magazine article (don't recall where).
Works nicely in 120 as well, grain is smaller of course but nice and sharp.
Example (some nudity, just so you know):
http://www.pbase.com/mononation/image/65231875/original
 

temujin

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
49
Format
Medium Format
earlier today, i developed some hp5 which was shot at ei 1600 in rodinal 1+25. the grain was very pronounced, which is obviously what i was going for, but the contrast was absolutely out of control. the negs looked like ortholitho film! didn't quite work for me.
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,833
Format
Hybrid
victor

this link might be helpful
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
there are examples of processing
film in dektol.
and it looks pertty nice!

john
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…