Best use for expired E6 film

Truzi · Oct 15, 2014

Best uses aside from sending them to you for disposal, lol
Also, this will be a few months in the future (I've even not done my own c-41 processing yet).

I'm not much of a slide-shooter, but do so occasionally. I do have fresh Velvia and E100g, and will end up processing it myself. Of course, I expect to make mistakes, so expired film will be good to learn to get the process right. I will use expired film until I am reliable with time and temperature control.

I have some expired slide film that came with other purchases, and the history is unknown. It is possible some will be fine, but also possible I'll have issues simply because of the age. I intend to process them E6 for the practice (though may do a few B&W for fun).

I've already used some to photograph fireworks (not yet developed). I figure crossover won't really be a deal-breaker for things like that.

Are there any suggestions where the effects of age, if present, won't be an horrible distraction? Sunsets? Night photography? These will not be important pictures, but I do want to get photos I can save - no matter how bad I mess them up.

trythis · Oct 15, 2014

How expired? A couple of years and you wont notice if its been kept cold or frozen, but 20 years old kept in an attic, you'd be wasting valuable developing chemistry.

Truzi · Oct 15, 2014

I have some Elite Chrome 100 exp. 2013, and Sensia 200 exp. 2011, so they are probably fine, though I don't know how they were stored.
There is also a small stack of Ektachrome 64T exp. 2003, and some odds-and-ends exp. 2000. Nothing older. I've never shot tungsten film before (except one roll for fireworks).

RattyMouse · Oct 16, 2014

I am shooting Fujifilm Astia film expired in 2008 and it looks BEAUTIFUL. I rate it at ISO 80 and I doubt anyone could tell it was so expired.

Dr Croubie · Oct 16, 2014

I've shot stuff from post-2005 (velv/prov/astia, e100g/s/vs), and you can't tell the difference from new (except in the pricetag).
I've shot velvia from 2002 and it also looks great, except for a slight magenta cast in the highlights. It goes white when it blows out, but clouds can look a bit purple. No biggie, I just don't use that box for pics with clouds in them (and, given that I scan my chromes, one day I'll learn to use those fancy programs what gets rid of them weird colours).

Not sure what you mean by 'practising' on them though. Getting used to metring the tight range, or to the E6 developing routine? Other than that it's the same as shooting any film. Load, aim, fire, develop, swear, repeat.
If you're shooting expired and using it to test out chems, and the film comes out a bit purple, do you blame the chems, your method, or the old film? Ditto the range, if it's a bit dark is that because you borked metering, or because it's lost speed, or because your temp dropped in the FD?

Unfortunately the only way to really learn is trial-by-fire with (relatively) new. Or send them all to me for disposal

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 16, 2014

Try something a little different. Use Ektachrome 64T for long-exposure star trails (6+ hours). The deep inky blue of the moving night sky speckled with the wonderous colours of the stars up there is a lot more tolerable than the garish purple hue of Provia (which needs extensive correction in post) or the eerie, pasty green of Velvia 50 (not suitable for it really, but some do). Velvia and Provia that has been refrigerated holds well beyond expiry, but both will lose speed and have shadow casting when exposed to big variations in temperature. Many professionals will not go anywhere near Velvia or Provia stored unrefrigerated for any length of time (I am one of them), such being adherance to their standard of imaging quality. If your photography is not critical, none of this is of relevance, but of passing interest. What to do? I suggest you go out there with the camera(s) loaded with film, expose at various EIs (additional to box speed) and take notes as you go along. That way you will have something to share with others who will no doubt follow with the same questions.

pentaxpete · Oct 16, 2014

My experience is that you get a lower 'D-Max' that is the blacks are weaker -- -- I took some outdated Fuji Sensia II to Belgium recently and some were a bit dark as I used 100 ASA but as the blacks were weaker I could scan them for putting onto Photo Forums
A sample' --Pentax KX + 35-80mm f4-5.6 SMC Pentax-F lens at 100 ASA in dull light

Great War 33 by pentaxpete, on Flickr

Truzi · Oct 16, 2014

By practicing I mean the processing. I never expect to do something right the first time - and if I do, I consider it an happy accident. Even if everything looks great, I won't consider myself confident with it until I exhaust about two 1-litre chemical kits. Several more before I consider myself adequate.

I'm pretty sure that I will have some errors on my timing, pouring, and probably agitation - even if I practice with empty tanks and water first. I intend to do a few fresh rolls with the expired rolls on my first runs (about 20% fresh rolls), but none of the rolls will be "important." I take snapshots, and regardless how these turn out, they will end up in a photo-album - even if people have magenta skin tones. If they are terrible, I simply won't mount them for projection.

The idea of star trails is really interesting. Our skies can be clear, though we do have enough light pollution to make it difficult - I think I'll try it. Perhaps the moon, too. Now that I think of it, with the autumn foliage changing colors, I'm not sure anything less than garish results would be bad.

Rudeofus · Oct 16, 2014

The big disadvantage of using star trails for first tests is that it takes a log time to get the exposures. I would also advise against using expired/unknown film for first tests: most processing errors won't give you blank or black slides but slides with incorrect colors and/or tonality, and you will never know whether your processing or the old film caused the deviation.

If you want to properly dial in your processing, you should use fresh film that you can trust, and shoot subject matter that contains neutral gray, deep blacks and some bright highlights. This way you can quickly identify processing errors, and if you develop short clips you don't waste roll after roll.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 16, 2014

My response was more along the lines that, for me at least, and a lot of people who do them, exposures for star trails are not a critical thing insofar as colour, definition etc. go: you will get something, but not a blank frame (all set-up things considered!) irrespective of the age of the film. It's quite a funky film 64T. Other exposures for it are evening/sunset by the sea when the blue of the sky and the general atmosphere can be accentuated by this film — but you can do that with any of the chromes (they will all have their own variations).

Star trails are most effective on New Moon nights in an inky black place far from light pollution. Even a light crescent moon will make the scene appear like an afternoon shot so consider the timing and exclude the moon. Take something to read, plus some cawfee, or camp out overnight. Make an adventure of it.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 16, 2014

Put it on ebay and call the film "Lomography film " . You'll get more. I sold a brick if 35mm Kodak EPP that was expired for 8 years.

Athiril · Oct 16, 2014

It is possible to craft a developer that doesn't develop the base fog, even if the film is badly fogged.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

2F/2F · Oct 16, 2014

It keeps pretty well if frozen. I have tons of MS100/1000 medium from the late '90's that I have kept frozen. I've slowly been working through it for about 10 years now. It works well enough for general purpose stuff, though I wouldn't devote "important" work to it.

If your film hasn't been frozen, I'd either cross process it, give it away, sell it, or use it for stuff where you might actually want screwed up color.

In any case, test a roll first.

GarageBoy · Oct 17, 2014

This thread reminds me that the E100VS/G/GX I've been "saving" for a special occasion is getting pretty "expired"

It's in the freezer, though

Xmas · Oct 17, 2014

Truzi said:
Best uses aside from sending them to you for disposal, lol
Also, this will be a few months in the future (I've even not done my own c-41 processing yet).

I'm not much of a slide-shooter, but do so occasionally. I do have fresh Velvia and E100g, and will end up processing it myself. Of course, I expect to make mistakes, so expired film will be good to learn to get the process right. I will use expired film until I am reliable with time and temperature control.

I have some expired slide film that came with other purchases, and the history is unknown. It is possible some will be fine, but also possible I'll have issues simply because of the age. I intend to process them E6 for the practice (though may do a few B&W for fun).

I've already used some to photograph fireworks (not yet developed). I figure crossover won't really be a deal-breaker for things like that.

Are there any suggestions where the effects of age, if present, won't be an horrible distraction? Sunsets? Night photography? These will not be important pictures, but I do want to get photos I can save - no matter how bad I mess them up.

It is no so difficult you will make a mistake first time, just check our thermometer against another
If your tank will take two films do the oldest and youngest together so you will see any colour shift, in material separate from any colour shift from 'yourself'.
If you are going to scan or make an inter negative a cast is not total disaster.
Girls can be very sensitive to colour used to have troubles with brides and Kchrome 25, you may need to cut self some slack.
If a film is bad do others from same history in C41 - be Lomo person.

Rudeofus · Oct 18, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
My response was more along the lines that, for me at least, and a lot of people who do them, exposures for star trails are not a critical thing insofar as colour, definition etc. go

I have no problem with star trails, but one spends night after night to get a full roll of them. If one then ends up with blank frames because of some substantial processing error there will be nothing but frustration. And as you said yourself: star trail images won't tell you about subtle processing errors that may well ruin a portrait shot.

sodarum · Oct 18, 2014

Best thing to do with expired film (that you don't know what to do with) is to give it to me and I'll dispose of it. I have a special disposal procedure for expired film. First I put it in my camera, then shoot various subjects exposing the entire roll, then I put it in the developing tank and process it. Finally I store it together with my other exposed and processed film, and you don't have to worry about it. I don't even charge any disposal fee.

On a more serious note. I recently developed a roll of 1992 that has been refrigerated since purchase. I'm sure if you did a densitometry test by comparing it to a fresh roll of the same film type that there would be some small differences, but to the naked eye it looks as good as new. Anything from 2000 onward, if stored in a freezer, should be (in my experience) considered fresh film.

cliveh · Oct 18, 2014

I don't know if this is true, but I was told that unexposed and processed E6 film will let infra-red light through and so some of it may have a use as a filter.

Alan Klein · Oct 18, 2014

1. How would processing expired film help you understand if you are developing correctly? If the film turns out "wrong", how will you know if it's your processing or just because it's expired? You need to work from a standard; a film that is fresh
2. I had not photographed for a number of years. All my film was expired so I gave it away to people who like to work with expired film. My philosophy is if it's worth shooting, it's worth using fresh film. What if you miss that great shot because of expired film? Also, gas, tolls, car depreciation, etc. are more expensive than the film. My time is important too. I did keep a couple of rolls just to practice loading, advancing film shots, putting on filters, etc. It's easy to screw that process us using a Mamiya RB-67. So a little practice before going out after not shooting for quite a while was helpful. But I didn't take pictures with the practice shots that I would want to keep and didn't process the film.

Truzi · Oct 18, 2014

I expect my first attempts to be a disaster, and thus cannot be disappointed I will be taking pictures of nothing important - just running around the yard, or during lunch at work, exposing film with the sole intent being learning to develop it. I fully expect my black dog to look green (or magenta), and if this happens, I will keep the photos anyway.

To use a guitar analogy, my first batches of E-6 (and C-41) will be the equivalent of practicing scales. A rote process.

Knowing my fortes and foibles, my first task is to get the mechanical aspects in order. My mind tends to drift during repetitive tasks. Even inverting B&W every 30-60 seconds can be challenging for me to pay attention to at first. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I feel I need to be more cautious than with B&W.

Think of it this way:
1) Dry runs with water and empty reels - practice.
2) Develop film - fresh & expired film, "real" results.
3) Adjustment - only fresh film, adjust my processing.
4) Confident enough to do important photos.

My first batch of chemicals will be for #2, second batch for #3.

If my first attempts go well, great, but I need to feel confident I have it well practiced in a "real-world" situation (read: actual film, not dry runs) before I trust myself for "good" rolls. The expired film may or may not be fine, so I might as well use it, and use it for practice. I will be using fresh film too, as stated in (there was a url link here which no longer exists), just not a majority of it. Four to six "tanks" should be enough for me to feel I have enough of a "routine." I cannot adjust my process before it is stable and consistent.

I really like the star-trails idea. Too much light-pollution around here, but since this is months away, I may be taking a long weekend to the Middle of Nowhere, Ohio, before then.

Xmas · Oct 18, 2014

Truzi said:
3) Adjustment - only fresh film, adjust my processing.

HiTruzi

Cancel 3) this is positive colour time temp and agitation per the instructions every time you are a mini lab.

It is indeed possible to vary the process but I wait some time...

Truzi · Oct 18, 2014

I'll certainly endeavor to do things correctly at all stages.

By Adjustment I mean to figure out where I'm going wrong (if I have bad results). For #2, I'll just be going through the motions and working on consistency - making sure I am doing things the same each time - and trying to be as accurate as possible. I can't fix a mistake if it's not consistent.

So, if I get to the point where I can consistently keep my time, temps, agitation, etc. the same, #3 will be to fix any variables I am getting wrong. Even if I do things "by the book" I am sure I will not do it the same as someone else. For example agitation may be too vigorous, or not enough so. I may not compensate for temperature drift correctly, etc. I have to be consistent before I can find where any failings may be.

So my #2 will be nothing more than following instructions accurately, and #3 will be to fix inadequacies withing that context.

Alan Klein · Oct 18, 2014

Sounds like a great plan. Have fun.

Best use for expired E6 film

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