Best Thing I Saw on The Internet Today...(Large Format B&W Printing)

ic-racer · Mar 21, 2023

I was getting to know Clyde Butcher's work a little better and I came across this example that he presented. It shows a straight print from one of his negatives and the resulting final print.

The example was very inspiring to me. Makes me want to re-think some of my images that I may not have printed to their best result.

Also, it makes light of all the useless dribble on LF forum about "lens coverage." Not an issue with the masters of printing.

ic-racer · Mar 21, 2023

I also reversed the raw print to check out what he would be seeing in the negative.

Like myself and others, most of Butcher's image editing is done from the negatives on a light table. "Negative Parties" as Clyde called them.

Donald Qualls · Mar 21, 2023

Cropped off most of the weeds in lower left, cropped the right edge a little, cropped the top enough to remove most of the vignetting and covered the rest with burning, split printed the sky at least one grade harder contrast than the foreground, which is at least one grade harder contrast (and a stop darker) than the straight print.

The mechanics are fairly straightforward; the talent lies in, first, seeing the final print in that negative, and second, in getting to it.

Doremus Scudder · Mar 22, 2023

... and, vignetting when you're planning a panorama and when working with huge negatives doesn't matter a bit.

Daniela · Mar 22, 2023

That's just gorgeous!

Donald Qualls said:
split printed the sky at least one grade harder contrast than the foreground, which is at least one grade harder contrast (and a stop darker) than the straight print.

This might be too broad of a question, but how do you train yourself to learn to assess that difference?

Donald Qualls · Mar 22, 2023

Practice, practice, practice. Reading Ansel Adams The Print helps, too.

BrianShaw · Mar 22, 2023

@ic-racer: Also, it makes light of all the useless dribble on LF forum about "lens coverage." Not an issue with the masters of printing.

Good example! The folks who are likely to have a conniption over this thread are the "no crop" types. A good image as a result can be achieved in many different ways!

And not to intending to be pedantic, but I am it seems... it is "drivel".

dribble | Common Errors in English Usage and More | Washington State University

brians.wsu.edu

pedantic

1. giving too much attention to formal rules or small details: 2. giving too…

dictionary.cambridge.org

DREW WILEY · Mar 22, 2023

Blah blah blah. Alleged "Masters of printing". As if every chef wants to make the same flavor of cake, and wants to make it round with the corners cut off. One more gimmick, that's all, if mimicked without a good reason. Deliberately vignetting has been used many times before in relation to very wide angle lens applications. Butcher's own subject matter with its depth of field challenges, and his desire to place the viewer himself as if within the view, looking around before a large print, takes advantage of that strategy.

For those of us who primarily look into things from a narrower perspective, however, it's counterproductive. Make your own rules. Butcher has his methodology and own set of lenses, and I have mine; and never the twain will meet.

Knowledge of lens coverage can make or break a career like architectural photography. I'd can't imagine ignoring it in most landscape applications either. And if vignetting corners ever catches on fad-like, it will become just one more passe hoola hoop episode soon left in the dust.

I do have some early tintypes where the primitiveness of the lenses (possibly Petzval) left the corners heavily distorted and vignetted. It was difficult to identify the exact location of those Indian villages due to background distortion, but I eventually did.

ic-racer · Mar 22, 2023

BrianShaw said:
Good example! The folks who are likely to have a conniption over this thread are the "no crop" types. A good image as a result can be achieved in many different ways!

And not to intending to be pedantic, but I am it seems... it is "drivel".

You didn't get it?? Reminds me of saliva dribbling from my dog's mouth at feeding time. I'd give it an 8 our of ten on the Malapropism Scale if I do say so myself.

Malapropism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BrianShaw · Mar 22, 2023

LOL... okay... you win!

ic-racer · Mar 22, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
Make your own rules. Butcher has his methodology and own set of lenses, and I have mine;

Anxious to see!

DREW WILEY · Mar 22, 2023

You might not EVER see mine on the web again. I don't know why even Butcher would want his big oxen BBQ's reduced to bullion cubes.

ic-racer · Mar 22, 2023

I'm actually interested in how the foreground grass disappeared. Spotting dye?

ic-racer · Mar 22, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
You might not EVER see mine on the web again. I don't know why even Butcher would want his big oxen BBQ's reduced to bullion cubes.

I'm actually serious, you can't show even a portion of a fine B&w print; before and after your manipulations. Drew, fine darkroom work is going to be a lost art if the seasoned professionals don't share.

pentaxuser · Mar 22, 2023

ic-racer said:
I'm actually interested in how the foreground grass disappeared. Spotting dye?

Good question It wasn't solely cropping as the top of the weeds should still be there. Might it have been possible to burn the tops without it showing as extra burning?

I like what he did to get to his second version

pentaxuser

DREW WILEY · Mar 22, 2023

Ice racer - There's nothing "fine" about web imagery. Zero. Nada. Not everyone wants their recipe served up at the Jack in the Box drive-up window. When my new deluxe copy stand goes into use it will be for sake of estate and print collection cataloging, and facilitating my heirs selling actual prints. Web surfers don't do me a bit of good. Been there, tried that. If a bit of PR spinoff recurs from my cataloging per se, yeah, I might have a web presence again. But it's an awfully low priority.

But if you want to see excellent examples of wide angle vignetting in relation to 8x10 contact prints, get ahold of the book, Land of Deepest Shade by John McWilliams. Classic Southern culture cynicism in black and white. I loaned my copy to a crusty old New Orleans oil roughneck, highly literate and deeply cynical; but he recently died, so I'll never see the book again. The doctor refused to see him anymore unless he gave up smoking, and he told me six years ago he'd rather die slow than quit smoking, and so it went.

Daniela · Mar 22, 2023

Oh, my...

Practice, practice, practice. Reading Ansel Adams The Print helps, too.

Thank you!

ic-racer · Mar 22, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
... When my new deluxe copy stand goes into use it will be for sake of estate and print collection cataloging, and facilitating my heirs selling actual prints.

We can only guess, but wondering since you 'talk the talk,' can you 'walk the walk...'

ic-racer · Mar 22, 2023

Actually after some searching...found it!!!

A little sentimental but the work is OK! How many of these are Cibachrome?

DREW WILEY · Mar 22, 2023

Yup. Those are all no doubt 30X40 inch Cibas printed from 8X10 chromes. And the father looks nearly old enough to have hypothetically crawled into a darkroom in diapers himself around the time Ciba was being discontinued. Quick learner.

awty · Mar 23, 2023

The darkroom is where its at.

juan · Mar 23, 2023

I know Clyde uses at least some digital methods of printing, so digital manipulation may be involved.

MTGseattle · Mar 24, 2023

I humbly submit that there is a slight magnification change between the straight print and the final. The relative size of the central trees has grown as has the width of the small central bottom cloud edge that still peeks onto the frame at the bottom. There may have still been a reed/grass top or 3 that got spotted or printed away.

Best Thing I Saw on The Internet Today...(Large Format B&W Printing)

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