Best Soup For Color As BW

suppose you wanted to use 220 rolls of BW. There is none, yet there is 220 color.

has someone already (using current emulsions) souped color in BW dev?

anyone want to save me some money and time and share their results

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goog found not less than three threads with some start info, right on this UG

If you do this, make sure you post your results as to effective film speed, tonality and grain. Are you planning to use negative or positive color film for this? I've processed color negative as B&W, but never printed it.

If it's C-41 process color neg film, have it processed as C-41 and print on Panalure paper or any panachromatic paper. Or if you scan it on a computer, do a BW conversion.

ric_kb said:

suppose you wanted to use 220 rolls of BW. There is none, yet there is 220 color.

has someone already (using current emulsions) souped color in BW dev?

anyone want to save me some money and time and share their results

//// edit

goog found not less than three threads with some start info, right on this UG

Click to expand...

i regularly process c41 in caffenol c. i add a tiny bit of ansco 130 ( about 10-20cc / 750cc ) the main problem is the color of the film ...
sometimes it makes it hard to make enlarger-prints because of the orange mask
you can remove the orange mask ( with very dilute household bleach ) but purists
tend to freak-out at just the thought of household bleach ... it does work though from what i have been told ...

there are other ways to remove the cast as well through other unmentionable means which traditional purists tend to freak-out about as well....

have fun !
john

If you develop in B&W developer, do you get any color at all?

I thought you needed special color developers in order to develop any of the color dyes.

BetterSense said:

If you develop in B&W developer, do you get any color at all?

I thought you needed special color developers in order to develop any of the color dyes.

Click to expand...

You do to activate the color dyes, but if you skip the bleach step the exposed silver will remain in the film after fixing. So you will have a black and white image on the orange film base. I haven't done it, but I suspect it won't be of as high of quality as regular black and white film, but worth a try.

Even if you develop color film in B&W developer you should still see the orange-colored mask, which consists of dye coupler, not dye. Since no color development takes place, dye does not form and the dye coupler and its orange color remains on the film.

But slide film doesn't have an orange mask, right?

Be prepared for l-o-n-g printing times and hope you like grade 5 prints, that's the only way to get acceptable B&W prints from color negs.

BetterSense said:

But slide film doesn't have an orange mask, right?

Click to expand...

Right, but I think 220 has been cancelled for slide films. At least it's hard to find stuff that's in date in the US.

Color film contains less silver halide than BW fims. When developed in a conventional developer the negatives will be rather thin.

I process old C-41 film as B&W in a Phenidone/Vit-C developer. I wouldn't even try wet printing but it scans okay. It's a bit grainy but not too bad. I wrote about it here: http://ascorbate-developers.blogspot.com/2011/05/pcm-c-41-good-results.html (this isn't my blog but I contributed the post).

BetterSense said:

But slide film doesn't have an orange mask, right?

Click to expand...

it isn't a orange mask but a yellow one for slide film

Michael ...

thanks, looks interesting...

I have a test scheduled now... will be shooting+souping next weds

in the OLD DAYS '68 or so,,, cross processing was a way of pushing...

I accidentally developed a roll of color negative film in Pyrocat HD used as a divided developer. It produced negatives I think dense enough to print in B&W. They certainly scanned well, and the silver image is quite distinct and quite sharp. It was developed in Pyrocat diluted 1:10 from stock, 6 min in A, 6 min in B, 75degrees F. I have no idea how they would print in terms of contrast given the color negative mask color, but the silver image appears to have good contrast.

Peter Gomena

It's the base+dye in C-41 that makes it problematic when doing wet printing. When using a scanner it appears as base fog but otherwise scans fine. The image in the post is as follows:



It's not manipulated in any way and slight post-processing makes it even better. As I mentioned in the blog post I've tried many devs and this is the best I've been able to do with C-41 in B&W chems so far. I've been using it for a while now and I'm very happy with it.

About the colour. It is actually possible to get a (faint) colour image when developing colour film in b&w developer. However, digital processing is necessary to actually see the color and specific film, developer and exposing combonation will help, too. Below is an example with some more info.

flowers. by brian hefele, on Flickr

DD-X 12min@20C. Density a little better than Delta3200@1000.

Several threads refer to kodak publication AE-31 for dealing with kodachrome and ektachrome developed as B&W. Just for the record, here's the section of that publication that deals with removing the Orange Stain:

To remove the stain from KODACHROME and KODAK EKTACHROME Films:
1. Prepare the bleach bath by dissolving 1 ounce (28 g) of KODAK Citric Acid (Anhydrous) in 1 gallon (4 L) of KODAK Rapid Fixer diluted as recommended for films in the fixer instructions.
2. Handle only one negative at a time. Treat the negative in KODAK PHOTO-FLO Solution at 75-80°F (24-27°C) for 1 minute. Use fresh solution prepared as directed on the label.
3. Rinse in water at 75-80°F for 20 seconds.
4. Immerse in the bleach bath (prepared in step 1) at 75-80°F for 7-14 minutes.
Stop bleaching if reduction of the silver image becomes apparent. It is better to leave a little stain than to lose the silver image.
5. Wash the negative thoroughly in running water at 75-80°F for 10 minutes.
6. Remove water droplets with a soft, viscose sponge. or treat the film with KODAK PHOTO-FLO Solution for 1 minute. Dry the negative.
Print the negative as you would any normal black-and-white negative.

e

jnanian said:

there are other ways to remove the cast as well through other unmentionable means which traditional purists tend to freak-out about as well....

have fun !
john

Click to expand...

I'm neither traditional nor a purist so I'd be very interested if you mentioned them