Best powdered b/w chemistry?

AgentX · Dec 19, 2010

So I was planning on using a select few products in my soon-to-be new darkroom, including Formulary's 130 paper developer and TF-5 fixer.

Unfortunately, due to my location and situation, I'm unable to order raw chemicals to mix my own and can't get liquids over 16 oz shipped to me.

Was wondering what suggestions APUG might have for a high-quality, general use paper developer and an alkaline non-hardening fix (for paper and film) that were available in powdered form. Any suggestions?

Neal · Dec 19, 2010

Dear AgentX,

Your situation is interesting. You can't purchase sodium thiosulfate but you can purchase Kodak fixer (powdered). In any case, Photographer's Formulary offers several developers and non-hardening fixers in powdered form. Which are "best"? That's for you to decide. They will all work well for you.

Neal Wydra

GregY · Dec 19, 2010

Formulary 130 comes in powdered form, and Kodak fixer is widely available in powdered form as well. I'm sure the Photo Formulary can provide you with fixer in powdered form as well

AgentX · Dec 19, 2010

Cool, thanks. I was actually emailing them about that while this thread was brewing. Guess I should have started with them.

And yes, Neal, the guys doing shipping aren't consistent or logical. Send them raw chemicals with a mild MSDS and it's pretty much "NO WAY!" but a factory package of kodak chemicals will go through without issue. So far, anyhow...

bdial · Dec 19, 2010

If they prefer packaging from companies they recognize, Dektol comes in powdered form too, as do D-76 and Xtol. I don't think Kodak powdered fix is alkaline though. Not sure that any others (in powdered form) are either, so that might need to be a compromise area.

AgX · Dec 19, 2010

Neal said:
You can't purchase sodium thiosulfate but....

What's the problem with sodium thiosulfate?

2F/2F · Dec 19, 2010

I don't know if Kodak Fixer is alkaline, but I would guess that the Formulary has something that will work for you.

fschifano · Dec 20, 2010

2F/2F said:
I don't know if Kodak Fixer is alkaline, but I would guess that the Formulary has something that will work for you.

I assure you, Kodak Fixer is not alkaline. It is a sodium thiosulfate, acid hardening fixer. One whiff of the stuff in the yellow envelope and you'll know for sure. I used it for many years before I discovered that C-41 fixer works and is a lot less expensive.

AgentX · Dec 21, 2010

I've been using Kodak Rapid Fix, as I didn't know much else from my days gone by in the university darkroom, but was in the States briefly, tried TF-4, and loved it. Minimal odor, super fast fixing...was planning on trying TF-5 next but was disappointed both are only available as liquids.

Formulary recommended Fixer 24 to me, as it's a powder kit, but it seems really slow to use compared to the ammonium thiosulphate stuff and my compact darkroom layout would make 2-tray fixing more of a spatial problem than I'd like. But I think I'll just give it a shot.

If I don't like the the 24, maybe I'll shoot for the moon and try mixing my own TF-3...we'll see if I can get the chemicals past my shipper or maybe I'll pay for a really big bulk order via DHL or something else direct to me.

removed account4 · Dec 21, 2010

why don't you just buy sodium thio "rice" and mix your own fixer ?
i never use hardening fixer, it is a PITA to wash it out ...
both the formulary, b+s, can mail it to you ...
and if you have a swimming pool supply shop look for
the old fashioned stuff to reduce chlorine.
it might take a while to find a store that stocks it ( i had to call 5 maybe 6 stores locally )
but it is the same stuff as non hardening old fashioned hypo ...

michaelbsc · Dec 21, 2010

AgX said:
Neal said:

You can't purchase sodium thiosulfate but....

Click to expand...

What's the problem with sodium thiosulfate?

The problem is the wide proliferation of morons in the world.

AgentX · Dec 21, 2010

I will admit to being a moron, but I don't think the fact that I can't ship raw chemicals to my current location easily or efficiently contributes to that. I also can't justify why the shippers are scared by bottles with chemical names on them, but don't mind factory packages with brand names containing the same stuff, but they're the ones who turn back my shipments so I try not to scare or piss them off.

Moving every 2-3 years internationally, now with a brand new baby, to locations with security problems in the developing world, does make trying to set up a darkroom of any kind a bit of a feat. I know it irks some people on the Internet, or at least lowers me to a sub-human scale, that I don't have the time or inclination to mess around with certain things, like home-brewing my chemistry, but I just manage to live with my inferiority as a human being and photographer.

Grif · Dec 21, 2010

AgentX said:
I will admit to being a moron, .

You know,,, I read the message,,, looked more like he was poking the policy makers than one of us,

mopar_guy · Dec 21, 2010

I have used Formulary TD-16 (Improved D-76, a powdered kit) for years with complete satisfaction. They also list TD-30 (improved Dektol). They also list bulk chemicals (ammonium Thiosulfate or Sodium Thiosulfate).

dehk · Dec 21, 2010

I like dektol, and its in powdered form.

MattKing · Dec 22, 2010

Grif said:
You know,,, I read the message,,, looked more like he was poking the policy makers than one of us,

That's funny, because I read michaelsbc's post in yet a 3rd way - I thought he was saying that the reason we have so many awkward and restrictive rules is that there are so many morons out there who can't or won't exercise common sense when they handle chemicals.

michaelbsc · Dec 22, 2010

AgentX said:
I will admit to being a moron, but I don't think the fact that I can't ship raw chemicals to my current location easily or efficiently contributes to that. I also can't justify why the shippers are scared by bottles with chemical names on them, but don't mind factory packages with brand names containing the same stuff, but they're the ones who turn back my shipments so I try not to scare or piss them off.

Moving every 2-3 years internationally, now with a brand new baby, to locations with security problems in the developing world, does make trying to set up a darkroom of any kind a bit of a feat. I know it irks some people on the Internet, or at least lowers me to a sub-human scale, that I don't have the time or inclination to mess around with certain things, like home-brewing my chemistry, but I just manage to live with my inferiority as a human being and photographer.

I do not mean to imply that you are the moron. My comment was directed toward the shippers senseless refusal to handle sodium thiosulfate but they will handle fixer.

Many times it seems like the morons are in charge.

Sorry I was not clear.

Athiril · Dec 22, 2010

In powdered form, I havent used anything better than:

Xtol
Caffenol-C

You should be able to get sodium thiosulphate from a pool shop.

bblhed · Dec 22, 2010

I will raise a shield so that the stones don't hit me directly when I say this, but any powdered fixer or developer that has been on the market for more than a few years should be just fine. I know that everyone has there favorites, but you appear to be in a beggars can't be choosers position. If I were you I would look at this as a chance to learn about new products that you might not have otherwise encountered if you weren't in this position.

I will also mention that aside from my wetting agent, I have never purchased B&W chemistry in any form but powder, and I have developer for film, paper, and fixer that does both, it's out there. I don't want to mention any brand names of companies that make powered paper chemicals like Kodak Dektol, or say things like D-76, or Kodak Fixer for paper and film because there are a few companies that make this stuff and I want you to look around at all your options.

Good luck

Grif · Dec 22, 2010

MattKing said:
That's funny, because I read michaelsbc's post in yet a 3rd way - I thought he was saying that the reason we have so many awkward and restrictive rules is that there are so many morons out there who can't or won't exercise common sense when they handle chemicals.

Wow,,, Didn't see that one. But yes. Makes you wonder looking at a group like this, with very common interests having those sorts of communication bumps how anything ever gets done in DC.

michaelbsc · Dec 22, 2010

Grif said:
MattKing said:

That's funny, because I read michaelsbc's post in yet a 3rd way - I thought he was saying that the reason we have so many awkward and restrictive rules is that there are so many morons out there who can't or won't exercise common sense when they handle chemicals.

Click to expand...

Wow,,, Didn't see that one. But yes. Makes you wonder looking at a group like this, with very common interests having those sorts of communication bumps how anything ever gets done in DC.

I recall a meeting I was in several years ago.

Several folks from the US, one from GB, and two from India.

Everyone in the room spoke fluent English, and we clearly all spoke different languages.

I find that if you understand the jokes, then you understand the language.

I still claim the world is at the mercy of the morons.

alanrockwood · Dec 22, 2010

Speaking of morons and such, the reason nothing in this world can be made idiot-proof is that the world just keeps making better and better idiots.

AgentX · Dec 23, 2010

Sorry for being pissy earlier; had a rough week. My misunderstanding.

Thanks to all for the assistance with this. I placed a big order with Formulary for powdered Pyrocat, Fixer-24, 130, and a few other odds and ends and will see how it goes through all the various machinations.

Failing it all, I'm sure I can get the basics I need locally in some form or other.

bobwysiwyg · Dec 23, 2010

alanrockwood said:
..the reason nothing in this world can be made idiot-proof is that the world just keeps making better and better idiots.

Love this line.

Best powdered b/w chemistry?

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