Best paper to print a project of Street photography

InExperience · Jun 10, 2021

Dear all,

I'm in doubt which paper to take for a project based on London Street photography.
I used to print on Bergger Prestige Variable NB, but I like too much ILFORD Art 300 as performance.

What you recommend? As well other papers.

Thank you.

radiant · Jun 10, 2021

What about Ilford Multigrade deluxe in high gloss? Beautiful blacks. I would print my street photography project in high gloss, I think it suits that work.

InExperience · Jun 10, 2021

vedostuu said:
What about Ilford Multigrade deluxe in high gloss? Beautiful blacks. I would print my street photography project in high gloss, I think it suits that work.

Thank you for your tip I will take a look on it, before to buy.

Thanks vedostuu.

NB23 · Jun 10, 2021

I don’t understand what you are saying... you don’t like bergger? You dislike art300? Like it too much?

InExperience · Jun 10, 2021

NB23 said:
I don’t understand what you are saying... you don’t like bergger? You dislike art300? Like it too much?

I like too much both of them… then it’s ok to develop a project on one of these papers.

Ko.Fe. · Jun 11, 2021

I have seen Winogrand, Kolar and Maier prints. And Zimbel ones.
Which paper is totally irrelevant.
You could get away with some Adams zone print of flowers.
But street photography will still show it as empty if here is nothing on it.
Most expensive paper won’t help.

NB23 · Jun 11, 2021

Ko.Fe. said:
I have seen Winogrand, Kolar and Maier prints. And Zimbel ones.
Which paper is totally irrelevant.
You could get away with some Adams zone print of flowers.
But street photography will still show it as empty if here is nothing on it.
Most expensive paper won’t help.

name dropping doesn’t add anything. I’ve seen HCB prints and I was underwhelmed. Winogrand prints, too. Nothing spectacular. If anything, those photographers’ work usually looks better on the internet anyways, the way it’s glorified.

Yes, paper plays a big part. Like, you don’t want to be judged by prints on RC Pearl, nor glossy. Framed and behind a glass, ok. But handling them, then no.

I have a clear preference towards Matte paper. This is where the image stands on its own without any added fluff and the stiff cardboard paper with good tooth gives a good tactile experience. Makes it complete.

jeffreyg · Jun 11, 2021

Ilford multigrade fiber glossy air dried is what I use. I've had very consistent results for many years but it boils down to what gives you the look you want. Why not get small packs of the two you think will work and print the same negative or two on each and see if there is enough difference to switch. Thru the years i've used different papers most of which are no longer available today but usually switched when the one I was using was difficult to get or discontinued. An effective image printed well will work on pretty much any paper.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureand photography.com/

InExperience · Jun 11, 2021

I like Ilford art 300 but when I scan it it's like it gives back roughness that really isn't present on my films.
My preoccupation is because, my project should be around 30 photos (more or less), and I wanted to print a book of them... then I was thinking even at the release.

This is an example: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/post-your-street-photography-here.160927/page-55#post-2430470

Ko.Fe. · Jun 12, 2021

NB23 said:
name dropping doesn’t add anything. I’ve seen HCB prints and I was underwhelmed. Winogrand prints, too. Nothing spectacular. If anything, those photographers’ work usually looks better on the internet anyways, the way it’s glorified.

Yes, paper plays a big part. Like, you don’t want to be judged by prints on RC Pearl, nor glossy. Framed and behind a glass, ok. But handling them, then no.

I have a clear preference towards Matte paper. This is where the image stands on its own without any added fluff and the stiff cardboard paper with good tooth gives a good tactile experience. Makes it complete.

I prefer gloss RC, for blacks.
I don't think Bob printed Maier's on FB. It looked like typical RC. Did it made any difference?
None, because of her.

Still, if photos are artsy dross, paper choice won't save it from been empty.

Don_ih · Jun 12, 2021

NB23 said:
I’ve seen HCB prints and I was underwhelmed. Winogrand prints, too. Nothing spectacular.

To be fair, Cartier-Bresson didn't do his own enlarging - just approved or disapproved the prints his printer made. And Winogrand said he only aimed to get a print that was neutral.

Scanning that Ilford paper will get you the texture of the surface. If your interest is scanning the print, I think matte would work best and you can boost the contrast in the scanner. Copy-stand, good lighting, and a digital camera would be the way to copy Ilford Art paper.

You should probably choose your paper based on what you find gives the best print results, then make your copies with a camera if the surface ruins the scan.

Colin Corneau · Jun 12, 2021

InExperience said:
I like too much both of them… then it’s ok to develop a project on one of these papers.

This doesn't really make it any more clear, sorry.

Choices like these are very personal -- it's highly subjective, and whatever your personal taste likes. If you like Art300 use that. If you don't like that very unique texture and look, there's lots of other options. Is there anything unique to your work that would affect the choice of paper, or how it's processed? ie. sepia toning, etc

Ian Grant · Jun 12, 2021

InExperience said:
I like Ilford art 300 but when I scan it it's like it gives back roughness that really isn't present on my films.
My preoccupation is because, my project should be around 30 photos (more or less), and I wanted to print a book of them... then I was thinking even at the release.

This is an example: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/post-your-street-photography-here.160927/page-55#post-2430470

There's two issues here the qualities of the darkroom printed image, and then the quality of the scans of that image. Some papers just don't scan well, for scanning I'd use an RC gloss paper like one of the Ilford Multigrade papers but for exhibition I use what's left of my Forte Polywarmtone and then will use my stock of Ilford Warmtone.

It's a dilemna but we can't always have it both ways. these days I prefer negative scans for digital outputand can match to my darkroom prints.

Ian

Vaughn · Jun 12, 2021

Warm toned, cool tones, tint from toners, glossy, matte. All are factors that will change the way the viewer will approach the print and the image on it. What do you want your prints to look like?

MattKing · Jun 12, 2021

I don't know the technical reason why, but Satin surfaced RC paper seems to scan the best for me (and the other people who recommended it to me).

NB23 · Jun 12, 2021

MattKing said:
I don't know the technical reason why, but Satin surfaced RC paper seems to scan the best for me (and the other people who recommended it to me).

Satin is my favorite for RC, by far.

Ian Grant · Jun 12, 2021

MattKing said:
I don't know the technical reason why, but Satin surfaced RC paper seems to scan the best for me (and the other people who recommended it to me).

It's the flatness of the surface, so Pearl and un-glazed Fibre based papers are the worst, and so would the Art papers like the old Kentmere and more modern Ilford, It must have been around 27 years ago when I had an Escom scanner, Escom were a German and EU chain computer store chain who went bankrupt, it was actually a re-badged Tamarak (? the spelling) and very expensive at that time. It was a very high end professional scanner back then bottom of their range as they mostly made drum scanners. It was in some ways way better than even the best modern Epson flat-bed scanners but it couln't scan negatives, eventually there were no software upgrades and it wasn't compaible with any modern OS.

Ian

NB23 · Jun 12, 2021

Ko.Fe. said:
I prefer gloss RC, for blacks.
I don't think Bob printed Maier's on FB. It looked like typical RC. Did it made any difference?
None, because of her.

Still, if photos are artsy dross, paper choice won't save it from been empty.

Those names aren’t recognized by/because of the quality of their prints. They are recognized because of the hype surrounding them. A book of their work is printed on cheap paper, therefore it is unimportant wether vivian maier had her work printed on RC.
But I guarantee you that if you are a collector of her work, you will definitely want a FB print. If it’s RC, you will feel fooled. At least, you should. This is why the choice of paper is important.

Like champaign or Wine, you just don’t drink it from cheap glass. You can, but you don’t. It’s blasphemy and rightly so.

You drink Moet from a Beer Mug? You collect Winogrand on RC paper? Who does that?

Ko.Fe. · Jun 12, 2021

NB23 said:
Those names aren’t recognized by/because of the quality of their prints. They are recognized because of the hype surrounding them. A book of their work is printed on cheap paper, therefore it is unimportant wether vivian maier had her work printed on RC.
But I guarantee you that if you are a collector of her work, you will definitely want a FB print. If it’s RC, you will feel fooled. At least, you should. This is why the choice of paper is important.

Like champaign or Wine, you just don’t drink it from cheap glass. You can, but you don’t. It’s blasphemy and rightly so.

You drink Moet from a Beer Mug? You collect Winogrand on RC paper? Who does that?

I’m regular person. I have street photography from those whom I’m finding interesting as books. It is very good form of presentation for home use. I go to exhibitions to see real prints. No difference if RC or FB then.

InExperience · Jun 13, 2021

Vaughn said:
Warm toned, cool tones, tint from toners, glossy, matte. All are factors that will change the way the viewer will approach the print and the image on it. What do you want your prints to look like?

Good Morning,

My question deal on that. I am using this time to understand which paper fit well with my project. But I don't hide that Ilford art 300 compromise better for a certain images instead using another paper (Bergger NB), in my case.
Anyway, I have in program to buy either Bergger Warm tone or Ilford Warm tone, compare a couple of photos with this three kind of paper (Bergger cool tone, worm tone, Ilford art 300) and to decide. I don't use RC paper, only Fiber.

Sirius Glass · Jun 13, 2021

Almost any photographic paper will fill the bill, printing is about exposure, focus, contrast, burning, dodging, developing, properly fixing, ...

Vaughn · Jun 20, 2021

I have been in Yosemite National Park for the past week, so I am late in replying.

One of the more substantial effects on viewing an image on paper is the surface of the paper itself. The amount of light is scattered as it hits the paper's surface, and how it is scattered, changes how one perceives the image. On textured paper surfaces, shadows become less deep, giving the appearance of lower contrast and perhaps being more visually accessible. However, a friend made images of the ruins at Chaco Canyon on Portriga Rapid 118 (textured surface) that made the black of the windows seem sunken deep into the paper.

Print color (cold-neutral-warm) will also affect how the viewer will respond to the image, as even the size of the print will. Warm-toned paper (or sepia-toning) tends to give the sense of age, while cold tone paper lends itself to modern times. What is wonderful is to turn that on its head. A close-up image of motorcycle chrome on cold glossly RC paper is classic -- but getting the same impact with a warm textured paper takes talent.

So I seriously disagree with Sirius Glass. Paper choice is more important than film choice in a project such as yours...and as equally important as all the rest. My best advice would be to try to make the best print possible on several types of paper to get a feel of what is possible. Good luck on your project!

awty · Jun 20, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Almost any photographic paper will fill the bill, printing is about exposure, focus, contrast, burning, dodging, developing, properly fixing, ...

Absolutely.
Papers just about personal preference only you can and should decide. Same goes with the choice of film.
Good luck, be sure to post up your pictures.

Sirius Glass · Jun 21, 2021

awty said:
Absolutely.
Papers just about personal preference only you can and should decide. Same goes with the choice of film.
Good luck, be sure to post up your pictures.

I post them on my walls all the time. It is a good practice.

Best paper to print a project of Street photography

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