Best metering in a manual-focus camera?

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 28, 2009

flatulent1 said:
For me the T90, EOS 3 and EOS 1V are right on the money, every time. As others have said, understanding what the meter is telling you and how to adjust to get what you want is the key. Even a camera with a primitive meter can give you the results you want if you know how to interpret it. That said, I have a pair of handheld meters I don't know how to use; my objective this year is to figure that out so I can better use my meterless cameras.

Oi! You forgot the 1N / 1NRS. They are all dependable. Elsewhere I've spoken for the much-loved T90. Many pros down here believe the 1V to be "overendowed" with technology and quite a few old EOS 1, 1Ns and 1NRS bodies are still in heavy use. And what's that around their neck?... why, it's a meter "just to challenge authority", of course!

Ken N · Apr 28, 2009

One thing not commonly realized about the OM-2S, OM-3, OM-4, OM-3Ti and OM-4Ti is that all metering is done within the mirror chamber itself. The focus-screen is not used at all for exposure determination. This means that you can change focus screens or allow bright light to enter the eyepiece without it affecting the exposure reading at all.

The OM-2S does not have multi-spot metering, but for speedy handheld use, I prefer it to the 3(Ti)/4(Ti) bodies because in manual exposure mode, it is a live spot meter. The 3(Ti)/4(Ti) is centerweight averaging until you press the spot button.

The original OM-4 and the OM-2S are battery hogs. Even when turned off, they have a slight bit of battery drain. In actual operation they aren't any worse than any other OM body, but it's the slow leakage that will irritate you. Even so, I only go through two sets of batteries a year--big scary deal.

The OM-2S is also regarded as the least reliable from an electronics perspective. This is a bit misleading, though. The OM-2S experienced a larger percentage of failures in the first couple of years of operation. Once you get past that early failure point, they are probably as reliable as any other OM body. I've had mine since January 1986 and it has over 100,000 pictures on it and it'll probably work until there is no more film.

budrichard · Apr 28, 2009

The center weighted meter first popularized in the Nikon FTn and continued in the the FM series is the best in a manual focus camera. Very simple to use and accurate, I have been using this system since my first Nikon FTn in the 1960's through to the lastest and sadly the last Nikon Fm3a. Point the center area to what you think should be the correct area to expose for, adjust the shutter/aperture and then compose and shoot. The FM3a also gives you AUTO shutter if you want with a convenient exposure hold button.
You can listen to all the 'experts' about this and that, but if you want simple, accurate, there is no better system. Until I got my Leica M7's and M6, i used a Nikon Fm as my exposure meter for my Leica M3, the meter being much more accurate and easier to use than the Leica MR4 attachment.-Dick

Pumal · Apr 28, 2009

My OM-2n has right on Metering all the time.

EASmithV · Apr 28, 2009

Well, you could try a Spotmatic, but I strongly reccomend a handheld meter. It comes in handy when you don't ahave a metering camera anyway.

jbbooks · Apr 28, 2009

Contax S2

Excalibur2 · Apr 28, 2009

Pumalite said:
My OM-2n has right on Metering all the time.

All my cameras from T90 to MTL3 and weston III and IV and they all read the same exposure for your average scene within half a stop.............

Rol_Lei Nut · Apr 28, 2009

Excalibur2 said:
All my cameras from T90 to MTL3 and weston III and IV and they all read the same exposure for your average scene within half a stop.............

While this thread is rapidly degenerating into "*MY* camera can meter accurately", any camera of mine which isn't within a half stop of the others (with controlled and uniformed lighting) is due for adjustment...

JimCee · Apr 28, 2009

Tom Duffy said:
If your definition of a good meter is one that gets you a good exposure most of the time without taking to long to think about it a "matrix" type meter is best. I'm sure that includes Nikon and Canon and others. I've gotten amazingly good results with a Leica R8 and transparency film, which I kind of didn't expect.

I agree with Tom. I have two Nikon film cameras, an F3HP and a N90s. The difference in the metering systems of the two cameras is primarily noticeable with the Matrix multi-pattern metering option on the N90s.

Shooting almost entirely color positive (slide) film, I personally found the N90s matrix metering was definitely more likely to produce a useable image for a quick exposure (without a lot of careful metering). Much of my photography has been in the high desert Southwestern areas of the U.S. The N90s just did a better job.

The Nikon FA would, in my opinion, be able to provide much the same results. By the way, I also prefer the F3HP as my all time favorite manual focus SLR!

Jim

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 28, 2009

Excalibur2 said:
All my cameras from T90 to MTL3 and weston III and IV and they all read the same exposure for your average scene within half a stop.............

within 0.5 stop??
What about 0.3 stop?

nsouto · Apr 29, 2009

To the OP:

it really depends on your definition of "best".

Does it mean:

"accurate"?
"flexible"?
"complete"?

Still, with a very broad brush I'd say:

the Nikon FA would be my choice for matrix-metering and general purpose
the Canon T90 for flexible metering
the Oly OM-3/4 for the most interesting metering concept, with the multi-spot idea.

As for the best metering camera bar none so far, the Nikon F6 hands down beats anything else I've tried including most modern dslrs. The only thing that will do better is full-on zone system with a Pentax hand-held spotmeter. But the F6 is an AF camera and as such outside of your manual focus specification.

Q.G. · Apr 29, 2009

nsouto said:
As for the best metering camera bar none so far, [...]

"accurate"?
"flexible"?
"complete"?

Excalibur2 · Apr 29, 2009

****within 0.5 stop??
What about 0.3 stop?***

What lens has 0.3 stop increments.....anyway my point was to show modern cameras are quite accurate for exposure readings, and you just have to use commonsense when your subject/scene is not "average" e.g. Tower bridge with a backgound of white sky,...black cat in a coal cellar etc

denmark.yuzon · Apr 29, 2009

how about the F5? from what i read about over the reviews.. and from my friends.. its metering capability is unrivaled back when it was still the new camera in town.. i myself havent used one.. but i see one in my immediate future..

mudman · Apr 29, 2009

denmark - the F5 isn't really a manual focus camera, but you can mount the MF lenses so I guess it counts. I've handled one but haven't used one. Its a big camera, but was lighter then I was expecting from reports of "its a big camera."

denmark.yuzon · Apr 29, 2009

i see.. thanks mudman.. hehe..

benjiboy · Apr 29, 2009

Ken N said:
One thing not commonly realized about the OM-2S, OM-3, OM-4, OM-3Ti and OM-4Ti is that all metering is done within the mirror chamber itself. The focus-screen is not used at all for exposure determination. This means that you can change focus screens or allow bright light to enter the eyepiece without it affecting the exposure reading at all.

The OM-2S does not have multi-spot metering, but for speedy handheld use, I prefer it to the 3(Ti)/4(Ti) bodies because in manual exposure mode, it is a live spot meter. The 3(Ti)/4(Ti) is centerweight averaging until you press the spot button.

The original OM-4 and the OM-2S are battery hogs. Even when turned off, they have a slight bit of battery drain. In actual operation they aren't any worse than any other OM body, but it's the slow leakage that will irritate you. Even so, I only go through two sets of batteries a year--big scary deal.

The OM-2S is also regarded as the least reliable from an electronics perspective. This is a bit misleading, though. The OM-2S experienced a larger percentage of failures in the first couple of years of operation. Once you get past that early failure point, they are probably as reliable as any other OM body. I've had mine since January 1986 and it has over 100,000 pictures on it and it'll probably work until there is no more film.

I used to sell the original OM4 in my shop when they came out Ken, and they did eat batterys, many customers didn't get even one film out of them.

DWThomas · Apr 29, 2009

I don't have many to compare, but Program mode in my Canon A-1 usually gets me a decent image; and I've been around long enough to occasionally know when to bump the exposure compensation one way or the other. I doubt I would make metering the deciding factor in camera selection -- maybe that's because a fair number of mine have none at all.

DaveT

Q.G. · Apr 29, 2009

Should we not separate two issues:
- metering modes (i.e. spot, center weighted, integral, matrix, multi-spot, etc.), and
- (automatic) exposure modes (aperture priority, shutterspeed priority, program, etc.)?

Ken N · Apr 29, 2009

benjiboy said:
I used to sell the original OM4 in my shop when they came out Ken, and they did eat batterys, many customers didn't get even one film out of them.

John H. may chime in here if there happened to be a repairable defect in a batch of OM-4 bodies, but what you describe is almost guaranteed to be one of two scenarios:

1. Alkaline batteries

2. The shutter-release being partially depressed while in the camera bag. This was/is extremely common and an issue with all 2S, 3/3Ti, 4/4T/4Ti bodies. A person learns quickly how to pack their camera bag.

One roll (or less) of battery life out of a camera doesn't even make sense and those of us who have been long-term users of the OM system have never experienced any such thing with the right batteries and proper storage in the camera bag. Numerous times I used the wrong batteries in my OM-2S or OM-4 and had short-term issues--yes even batteries that died within minutes during wintertime shooting. But never with silver-oxides. It took years before I learned exactly what type of battery to get and which ones to avoid.

The OM-2S and OM-4's battery drain issues were very specifically caused by low-current drain at idle. This did vary a little bit throughout the production life of the cameras, so some are worse than others, but to think that a proper silver-oxide battery would be drained by the camera in short term is nuts.

nsouto · Apr 30, 2009

Q.G. said:
"accurate"?
"flexible"?
"complete"?

all of the above!

darinwc · Apr 30, 2009

"To the OP:

it really depends on your definition of "best".

Does it mean:

"accurate"?
"flexible"?
"complete"?
"

The original question was a bit fuzzy i will admit, but im surprized this thread has gone on this long.
I need to think long and hard about this question because right now I am a bit confused myself. Maybe I should ask "what do you ~expect~ of an in-camera meter?" and which camera meets those expectations.

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 30, 2009

Q.G. said:
Should we not separate two issues:
- metering modes (i.e. spot, center weighted, integral, matrix, multi-spot, etc.), and
- (automatic) exposure modes (aperture priority, shutterspeed priority, program, etc.)?

I vote that we should.
The thread is wandering around hither and dither like an untethered yard dog.
The original question concerned metering, not modes.

benjiboy · Apr 30, 2009

Ken N said:
John H. may chime in here if there happened to be a repairable defect in a batch of OM-4 bodies, but what you describe is almost guaranteed to be one of two scenarios:

1. Alkaline batteries

2. The shutter-release being partially depressed while in the camera bag. This was/is extremely common and an issue with all 2S, 3/3Ti, 4/4T/4Ti bodies. A person learns quickly how to pack their camera bag.

One roll (or less) of battery life out of a camera doesn't even make sense and those of us who have been long-term users of the OM system have never experienced any such thing with the right batteries and proper storage in the camera bag. Numerous times I used the wrong batteries in my OM-2S or OM-4 and had short-term issues--yes even batteries that died within minutes during wintertime shooting. But never with silver-oxides. It took years before I learned exactly what type of battery to get and which ones to avoid.

The OM-2S and OM-4's battery drain issues were very specifically caused by low-current drain at idle. This did vary a little bit throughout the production life of the cameras, so some are worse than others, but to think that a proper silver-oxide battery would be drained by the camera in short term is nuts.

I was talking about factory sealed OM 4s straight out of the box, with the batterys that the manufacturers supplied with the camera, I remember at the time take the matter up with the Olympus rep. and having to send four or five of them, that customers had returned, back to Olympus U.K and getting a letter from them saying it was an electrical fault,due to an error in the design something to do with some chip or other, I don't remember exactly it was about twenty years ago
The problem seemed to be sorted out in the later production but many the early ones had this fault

Q.G. · Apr 30, 2009

It indeed isn't as simple as you present it to be, Ken.
I learned very quickly that if i don't take the batteries out of the OM4 when i stop using it for a short while (think hours rather than days), i will need to put in fresh batteries the next time i need it. No matter what type of battery. And it's not because of a partially depressed shutter release either.

(Much unlike the OM2, which seems to go on forever without needing fresh batteries. Great machines, those OM2 cameras. Arguably among the very best ever made.)

Best metering in a manual-focus camera?

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