Best keeping paper developer??

removed account4 · May 3, 2012

cdholden said:
John,
What's your experience with that 30 day limit? I just mixed up a 4L batch (and decanted to smaller bottles) this weekend and went through ~20 sheets of 8x10 Emaks-888 (Nuance, etc). I mixed it 1:1 but after the first few test strips, decided I wanted more contrast. I started with about 600ml of 1:1, then added about 350ml of stock to boost contrast to where I wanted it. It looked nice, but I want to play with that combo some more before making any judgement on it. I was happy enough to want to continue working with it. I just hope I can use the same tray of developer when I get to turn the lights out again in 2 weeks.

Chris

hey chris ..

i have left it in a tray for a long time before ... at least 2 weeks ..
it was darkish, but worked fine. ole ( here on apug and the large format site )
once posted that he left for a job, and came back 30 days later, and his tray was still good ...
( i wish i could find the thread ! )

i keep ansco130 even when it is black as coca cola ... it is a great developer for paper negatives
and depending how black and how used, it can be a great film developer in that state as well ... ( dilute a little more )

john

markbarendt · May 3, 2012

Alan W said:
As recommended above,Try some L.P.D.Lasts forever and thats just the half life!

Yep, just about.

sly · May 5, 2012

Thanks all for your replies. Internet browsing led me to the discovery that LPD comes as a powder as well as a concentrate. Given the cost of shipping, that seems like a good choice. Anyone know if there's a Canadian source for this?

Roger Cole · May 5, 2012

sly said:
Thanks all for your replies. Internet browsing led me to the discovery that LPD comes as a powder as well as a concentrate. Given the cost of shipping, that seems like a good choice. Anyone know if there's a Canadian source for this?

Will Freestyle ship it to Canada? It's not listed as ORMD. I don't know about their shipping costs except they recently offered some lower priced international shipping, I believe.

I really like LPD. Do note that the stock mixed from powder is less concentrated than the liquid concentrate. This isn't a problem or anything just important to keep in mind. Standard dilution from powder mixed stock is 1+2, while from liquid concentrate is 1+4.

MattKing · May 5, 2012

sly said:
Thanks all for your replies. Internet browsing led me to the discovery that LPD comes as a powder as well as a concentrate. Given the cost of shipping, that seems like a good choice. Anyone know if there's a Canadian source for this?

I may have seen some at Beau Photo - I'm unsure.

brian steinberger · May 5, 2012

Definitely go with the powder. So easy to mix up, not much work. The liquid is much more expensive and cannot be stored as long as the powder.

Richard Jepsen · May 6, 2012

Ilford PQ and Multigrade will not exceed Dektol in shelf life. LPD has a longer shelf life but not nearly as long as Mosesh 4812, 130, of Liquidol. Suggest one use carbonated drink plastic bottles for chemical storage. Fill to the top.

mrred · May 6, 2012

All this talk on how to make it last.... 4l cost $6 here.....what is the point? I keep 4-5 bags handy and my bank hasn't broken yet.

markbarendt · May 6, 2012

mrred said:
All this talk on how to make it last.... 4l cost $6 here.....what is the point? I keep 4-5 bags handy and my bank hasn't broken yet.

This is actually a great point, many/most of the chemicals we use are really pretty cheap and practical use and specific characteristic concerns are really much more important in my world.

On that front LPD is still a great choice because of it's ability to adjust from cool to warm tone as needed.

Still the longevity does make keeping things "ready to use" easier over time as long as it makes sense in the rest of the context.

MattKing · May 6, 2012

sly is a long way away from any store that sells paper developer, so I can really understand her desire to find something long-lived.

Roger Thoms · May 6, 2012

sly said:
Thanks all for your replies. Internet browsing led me to the discovery that LPD comes as a powder as well as a concentrate. Given the cost of shipping, that seems like a good choice. Anyone know if there's a Canadian source for this?

I always buy the powder, not only is shipping cheaper, but the powder developer is cheaper, at least I think it is.

Roger

cmacd123 · May 6, 2012

sly said:
Thanks all for your replies. Internet browsing led me to the discovery that LPD comes as a powder as well as a concentrate. Given the cost of shipping, that seems like a good choice. Anyone know if there's a Canadian source for this?

I think that Both B&H and Freestyle will ship it. Although as usual, you should do a "stock up" when buying to spread out the fixed shipping costs.

walbergb · May 6, 2012

+1 for using brown glass bottles over plastic with any developer. I use Ilford Multigrade & Warmtone more than any other developer, and a full bottle of working solution lasts a very, very long time if not used to capacity.

Photo Engineer · May 6, 2012

I have been curious as to how brown bottles help!

Please help!

PE

cmacd123 · May 7, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
I have been curious as to how brown bottles help!

Glass is impervious to air, while some plastic is better than others. The brown bottles are made in a size series, 125, 250, 500, 1l 2l that allows full bottles.

I don't know if Brown is actually better than clear, but an old Modern Photography once said that it is more likely to be chemically neutral, and it is easy to clean, so they last a long time.

Photo Engineer · May 7, 2012

We used clear glass or heavy plastic bottles for storing developers, fixers, blixes, bleaches, stabilzers ... Well, you name it. But we rarely used brown glass.

PE

cliveh · May 7, 2012

Michael R 1974 said:
PE, I always thought the reason for the brown glass was simply to keep attenuate light. Don't some chemicals either oxidize or otherwise "go bad" faster in the presence of light, or certain wavelengths?

At least that's what I think I've read in some mixing/storage instructions. Although I have this feeling another myth is about to be debunked...

I think PE is perfectly correct. I have seen other threads about keeping developer in brown bottles. Why? I keep my D76 on the window sill and have not noticed any deteriation due to light.

zsas · May 7, 2012

I think this is a good answer (photolysis):

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

cliveh · May 7, 2012

zsas said:
I think this is a good answer (photolysis):

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Is this still the case if air is excluded?

zsas · May 7, 2012

I bet if you had four ziplock bags of Dektol on your window with the following variables:
1) bag was clear with no air in it
2) bag was clear with air in it
3) bag was brown with no air in it
4) bag was brown with air in it

After say 180 days the best (PH normal and most active) would maybe be:

3,4,1,2

I wonder what the test would look like if we added 5 and 6 and 7 an 8 (clear glass and brown glass)...

I presume Clive air in the container is another varriable in the equation, but have no idea if it takes precedence based on the color of the container, I guess my fake test could go:
3,1,4,2???

cliveh · May 7, 2012

zsas said:
I bet if you had four ziplock bags of Dektol on your window with the following variables:
1) bag was clear with no air in it
2) bag was clear with air in it
3) bag was brown with no air in it
4) bag was brown with air in it

After say 180 days the best (PH normal and most active) would maybe be:

3,4,1,2

I wonder what the test would look like if we added 5 and 6 and 7 an 8 (clear glass and brown glass)...

I presume Clive air in the container is another varriable in the equation, but have no idea if it takes precedence based on the color of the container, I guess my fake test could go:
3,1,4,2???

I would suggest the result would be:-

3,1 or 1,3 being the same and 4 being better than 2.

zsas · May 7, 2012

We should try it!! Now who wants to kill 4L of dev for "science"

Photo Engineer · May 7, 2012

Guys.....

We try to keep things in glass bottles to exclude air, right? So, if we use clear or brown, the amount of air is the same at all comparable stages of use. Oxygen has a fixed limit to what can dissolve in water, Once it is used up it is gone, provided the cap is on. If you use an inert gas, there is even less problem.

And, as noted above, there is little light in our darkrooms. Especially UV light which is quite damaging to us as well as our developers.

At Kodak, we used clear glass with cork stoppers. We stored in 1 gallon containers and often had 20 gallons of a mix made at a time using it up over 2 - 3 weeks or 1 month. We saw no problem. Our labs and offices were lit by Deluxe Cool White fluorescent bulbs for uniformity in all areas, except for labs which had tungsten lights. Chemical storage was not in darkrooms for safety. We had common lab areas for chem. storage.

PE

cdholden · May 7, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Oxygen has a fixed limit to what can dissolve in water, Once it is used up it is gone, provided the cap is on. If you use an inert gas, there is even less problem.

They were produced before my time, but at one time I had a few cans of powdered D-76 that came in nitrogen charged canisters... to keep the powder from oxidation.

Chris

Photo Engineer · May 7, 2012

AFAIK, all Kodak chemistry is packed under an inert atmosphere.

PE

Best keeping paper developer??

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