Best in camera meter?

Soeren · Oct 27, 2008

No incamera or off camera meters are better than the external AE-system behind them (read photographer)

Kind regards

John Koehrer · Oct 27, 2008

Soeren said:
No incamera or off camera meters are better than the external AE-system behind them (read photographer)

Kind regards

That's called a "Biological interface" when information is interpreted incorrectly it's a "Biological interface error"

Chan Tran · Oct 27, 2008

2F/2F said:
No reflected light meter gives you a "correct" exposure. That would be literally impossible, as your correct exposure and my correct exposure of the same composition could be radically different. They are supposed to give you the information you need to make a correct exposure depending on your own vision and using your own technical skill. No matter how advanced your meter is, you will 100% of the time get a better exposure, if only slightly, for the print you want by going with something other than what it sez. A reflected meter followed to the T must be expected to be way wrong sometimes, a little wrong most of the time, and perhaps every now and then, spot on. A lot of the time, it will get you a neg that will allow you to make a decent print, but to expect it to always be "right" if you are going with exactly what it recommends is an exercise in futility.

Well it would be a long explanation which I don't want to go in here. I accept that the meter would be "Accurately incorrect" but this meter in my F5(only mine that I tried to get Nikon to fix twice) is simply not "Accurate". My handheld spot, flash, incident meters (I have several) would give me incorrectly readings in many situations but they are all very "Accurate".

Philippe-Georges · Oct 27, 2008

Markok765 said:
What do you think the best in camera meter is? Which camera?

In camera : Pentax LX (I feel like repeating my self, sorry if that is annoying to you...)
Handheld : Pentax digital spot (idem)

Philippe

Soeren · Oct 27, 2008

John Koehrer said:
That's called a "Biological interface" when information is interpreted incorrectly it's a "Biological interface error"

Thanks good to have the right words for it
Another thing why care about which meter is the best. Most B&W films have latitudes that exceeds the inacuracy of most modern cameras add to that the "Biological interface error" which could call for both added and subtracted exposure or even accept a reading that should have been rejected/corrected and .........
The only time I really care is when shooting color slides and on the last ocasion I had four bad exposures on the same number of films due to my ovn rusty technique and dealing with high contrast scenes. My fault not the meter. It's all about knowing your camera, meter or even sunny 16, how it reads, where you read and when it will fail (which situation). When you shoot B&W and in doubt err on the side of over exposure.
Kind regards

Pupfish · Oct 27, 2008

The Pentax LX metering is good for a couple of things, like long time night exposures and mirror lockup automatic exposures, but it's a 30 year old design missing a couple of features I now find indispensable (like no 1/2 or 1/3 stop steps with shutter speeds in manual metering mode, and no spot meter). I'm a big fan of spot-metering ever since acquiring a Pentax PZ-1 as soon as they came out. It instantly usurped my LX, largely due daylight balanced flash metering and to an ingenious little feature (Hyper Manual Mode) that allowed one to take a spotmeter reading and lock in the precise incremental value as a manual exposure that didn't go away when you let up on the button or after the next shot. ("IF Button"). That was pretty slick. But the matrix metering in that camera was not reliable, just couldn't figure out when it was going to wildly over-expose my transparencies.

I recently picked up a really nice Pentax 645N which has very intuitive and extremely accurate Matrix metering. Have to say it's as good as anything I've ever used. Spot metering is dead-on accurate too. Just wish it had the IF button and Hyper Manual Mode.

That includes also having a slew of Nikons (F5, D200, D300). The D300 Matrix metering too is rather uncanny, far better algorithms than the F5, but there's so many buttons and menus and over/under settings to beware of that it's easy to screw up if you don't zero the camera out with a 2-button reset each time (not a fan of doing that, myself). I check the histograms religiously but typically find I don't need to except to see whether I've got a screwy setting.

What I'd really like to see is a film camera that has a (simple, low-res and cheap) auxiliary sensor for image making but for exposure/flash confirmation via histograms and a good LCD image.

Paul VanAudenhove · Oct 28, 2008

I recall reading way back when (in the days of the Nikon F2) that the meters were calibrated for exposing slide film, Kodachrome, I think. If that exposure bias has continued, it would explain the problem with underexposure of neg film. Somehow I seem to remember that the bias was to underexpose by a third or a half stop from what was 'correct.'

The nicest in-camera meters I have used have been in my F2, and in the F5. They both have a linear scale and are very easy to see how much over or under you are from the meter reading. That was the one thing I really didn't like about the F3, the meter just showed over, under or on; but not by how much - at least in manual mode, in automatic mode you could dial in some compensation.

Chan Tran · Oct 28, 2008

My first camera which was the F2AS has the 3 LED's so it's not much better than the F3. It does show 5 different stages rather than just 3 as in the F3. I have since lost the F2AS. I like the F5 quite a bit but I wish the manual exposure scale is longer and show +/-3 EV rather than +/-2EV.

nemo999 · Oct 29, 2008

Markok765 said:
What do you think the best in camera meter is? Which camera?

The best in any camera I own is in a Pentax MZ5-5n (matrix metering). I am sure other brands of matrix metering as as good, Nikon I know has the added refinement that a mercury switch detects whether the camera is horizontal or vertical and changes the matrix pattern accordingly (Pentax metering is really accurate for horizontal shots only). A separate hand-held meter is always preferable if you have time to use it - a built-in meter is always preferable if it means you get a shot rather than miss it.

haris · Nov 13, 2008

When Canon EOS3 came out, I have read it has best ever meter(s). After that came F5, 1V and F6, so I don't know.

Mark Fisher · Nov 13, 2008

I suppose I could fit my pentax spot meter into my view camera, but that technique has other problems The OM3 and 4 (cheaper than 3) have a good spot metering function and will be my next camera body for just that reason. Spot metering requires that you know the very basics of the zone system, but that is not very hard. With the spot meter and your newfound knowledge, you will be taking better exposed images immediately and know how much the highlights will blow out (or how much you need to change your development.

JBrunner · Nov 14, 2008

The best in camera meter is the one I ignore for the spot meter hanging on my belt. If I'm just snappin, and don't have a spot meter, I like the needle meter in my old K1000. I can swing it around and block and unblock bright things with my hand and read it a little like a spot meter, at least I can get a range for the scene and make an informed decision. I absolutely loathe cameras that make decisions on their own.

Vilk · Nov 14, 2008

based on the couple of dozen i have used--all constant-angle, continuous-response meters are equally good when filtered through experience (a.k.a. brain calibration). after you learn where to point them, they all make sense

i gave up on smart meters when i realized i was sometimes adjusting my frame ever so slightly to fool the "matrix"--ouch!

Paul Jenkin · Nov 14, 2008

Gotta go with the Nikon F5. Mine never let me down - I just found the camera way too heavy for what I wanted. My current 35mm film camera is an F100 and that runs the F5 very close....

Lee L · Nov 14, 2008

Vilk said:
i gave up on smart meters when i realized i was sometimes adjusting my frame ever so slightly to fool the "matrix"--ouch!

So you're saying that cameras have "red pill" meters or "blue pill" meters?

Lee

SilverGlow · Nov 14, 2008

With the later cameras from Canon and Nikon, matrix/evaluative metering is very, very good, even for backlight situations. This type of metering can also be tied to a particular focus point, and that makes it even better.

So what is the best? I don't know...but I do know I rely on spot and partial metering less and less, because of the improvements with evaluative/matrix. I suspect the same is true with other late model DSLR's from other makes. The evaluative metering on my old Canon EOS-3 film camera is right on.

Polybun · Nov 14, 2008

Markok765 said:
What do you think the best in camera meter is? Which camera?

Without question, the OM-4

Not only does it have the standard run of the mill center weighted system, but it also has a spot meter function, but unlike any on any other camera! See, you can walk up to a subject, press the spot button, and it sets a spot, then you can turn around and set another spot, then another, and another, then you can also hit the shadow button, and define a spot as your shadow, or hit the highlight button and define a high light! You can actually define up to 8 independant spots!

Im a pentax man myself, but the Olympus OM-4 makes me lustfull.

Palantiri7 · Nov 16, 2008

Canon EOS 3

Philippe-Georges · Nov 17, 2008

Polybun said:
Im a pentax man myself, but the Olympus OM-4 makes me lustfull.

Then, have a look at the Pentax LX...

Best in camera meter?

haris

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