Best film/developer combo for high contrast daylight

[mooseontheloose]

As a rule I tend to avoid high contrast daylight (blue skies, no clouds, hard shadows) because it doesn’t really work with the type of images I like to shoot. However, this summer I’ll be travelling across Central Asia on a group tour (so fewer opportunities to shoot in nicer lighting) where I can expect those conditions, along with the correspondingly hot weather, on a daily basis. Normally when I come across those situations, I shoot at half the box speed and adjust development accordingly. But that doesn’t always help. However, I know that some films are already pretty contrasty (like the Rollie Retro films), which would only make the situation worse, and was wondering if there were some film/developer combos that would help tame the contrast in these sorts of situations (other than what I am currently doing). I’d like to try a few of them out before I leave in August. I’m open to any brand and speed of film.

 

[MattKing]

Diafine comes to mind - with something like Tri-X or (in the past) Plus-X.
The problem with sunny conditions is that Diafine also gives a speed boost.

 

[David Allen]

My subject matter always involves a very high contrast range.

What works very well for me is Delta 400 developed in Barry Thornton's Two-Bath developer. This enables you to expose for the shadow detail that you want with absolutely no chance of the highlights blowing out.

Have a great trip.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

 

[mooseontheloose]

My subject matter always involves a very high contrast range.

What works very well for me is Delta 400 developed in Barry Thornton's Two-Bath developer. This enables you to expose for the shadow detail that you want with absolutely no chance of the highlights blowing out.

Have a great trip.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

What’s your iso for the Delta? Is there a reason you prefer the 400 over the 100? I currently shoot a lot with the 400, but I’ve never used BT’s two-bath developer.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Diafine comes to mind - with something like Tri-X or (in the past) Plus-X.
The problem with sunny conditions is that Diafine also gives a speed boost.

I do have Diafine, but the speed boost is also a concern for me. I guess I could try it with lower ISO films and see.

 

[David Allen]

What’s your iso for the Delta? Is there a reason you prefer the 400 over the 100? I currently shoot a lot with the 400, but I’ve never used BT’s two-bath developer.

Having tested my EI for Delta with BTTB developer, I use iso 200. This is using a Mamiya 7 with 65mm lens. I meter the shadows that are important for my images close up with a Weston V selenium meter and then process for 5.5 minutes in both Bath A and Bath B. BTTB developer completely controls the highlights. It is easy to mix up, cheap and very reliable. The reason I prefer 400 is that many of my subjects often will include dark walls in shadow plus white highlights in full sun. The shadow areas need generous exposure and, to achieve the level of sharpness that I want in my images, a 100 film would require the use of a tripod. As my working method is to walk around for 3 - 6 hours to find my subject matter, I do not want to lug around a sturdy tripod (used to do this when I was younger and did landscape photography but, for the urban realm and my age, it is not something that suits me anymore). I make prints at size 30 x 40cm and with 400 the grain is fine enough for my taste. Also, generally 400 film is inherently lower contrast than 100 film.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

 

[twelvetone12]

I use Adox atomal 49 in these situations with a combo of 100iso film. I find that I keeps the highlights in control very well. Downside is that used stock there is some loss of sharpness, which I like, but for others it can be a no-go

 

[bernard_L]

Irrespective of choice, do a test before you leave.

My limited experience with Diafine resulted in what I can only describe as "dull" rendering.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Irrespective of choice, do a test before you leave.

My limited experience with Diafine resulted in what I can only describe as "dull" rendering.

I always do! Diafine is not a mainstay developer for me, but I find it useful in some situations, especially for films/situations that could use a speed push. I don't use it as an everyday developer though.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I use Adox atomal 49 in these situations with a combo of 100iso film. I find that I keeps the highlights in control very well. Downside is that used stock there is some loss of sharpness, which I like, but for others it can be a no-go

I actually have some Atomal 49 - just haven't tried it yet. I think I may have bought it as a way to control contrast with the Rollei films, but never got around to testing with this particular developer. Another thing to add to the to-do list! Do you have any particular films that you use with it? I'm wondering if the loss of sharpness is worse with traditional or t-grain films.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Having tested my EI for Delta with BTTB developer, I use iso 200. This is using a Mamiya 7 with 65mm lens. I meter the shadows that are important for my images close up with a Weston V selenium meter and then process for 5.5 minutes in both Bath A and Bath B. BTTB developer completely controls the highlights. It is easy to mix up, cheap and very reliable. The reason I prefer 400 is that many of my subjects often will include dark walls in shadow plus white highlights in full sun. The shadow areas need generous exposure and, to achieve the level of sharpness that I want in my images, a 100 film would require the use of a tripod. As my working method is to walk around for 3 - 6 hours to find my subject matter, I do not want to lug around a sturdy tripod (used to do this when I was younger and did landscape photography but, for the urban realm and my age, it is not something that suits me anymore). I make prints at size 30 x 40cm and with 400 the grain is fine enough for my taste. Also, generally 400 film is inherently lower contrast than 100 film.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Thanks David! I will see if I can source the chemicals I need here in Japan (I've never made any developer from scratch). I think I should be able to, just need to make sure the Japanese translations are correct (!). I like Delta 400 in Finol - it has a natural speed increase in that developer to 640, which makes it useful for lower light situations. It would be great if I could use the same film for both low and bright light situations.

 

[David Allen]

Hi Rachelle,

I would be surprised if you can’t source the raw chemicals in such an advanced country as Japan - especially as you only need three chemicals. Making this developer is very easy and, just in case you don’t have Barry Thornton’s Two-Bath developer recipe, it is as follows:

BATH A
85 g Sodium Sulphite (Natriumsulfit)
6,5 g Metol

To mix put 750ml of hot distilled water in a measuring jug. Put 3-4g of the Sodium Sulphite (Natriumsulfit) into the hot water and dissolve. Then add all of the Metol and dissolve. Then put in the rest of the Sodium Sulphite (Natriumsulfit) and dissolve. Then top the jug up with cold distilled water to 1L.

Bath B
12 g Sodium Metaborate (Natriummetaborat)

To mix put 750ml of hot distilled water in a measuring jug. Put all of the Sodium Metaborate (Natriummetaborat) into the hot water and dissolve. Then top the jug up with cold distilled water to 1L.

I litre of Barry Thornton’s Two-Bath has a minimum capacity of 12 films.

If you can’t source the chemicals in Japan, I can highly recommend the following supplier here in Germany (you will need to order using the German chemical names in brackets):

Fototechnik Suvatlar
Simrockstr.178a
D-22589 Hamburg

Tel.040 / 39 57 09 und 040 / 39 79 31
Fax: 040 / 39 19 08 66
Mobil: 0173 / 60 11 77 2

For your information, the processing sequence that works for me (using Paterson plastic tanks and ALL chemicals always at 20C) is as follows:

• Pour pre-soak into the tank (many people will probably pick up on this and state that you should not use a pre-soak. However, I have always used a pre-soak with this developer - now more than 15 years my only developer - and, as the developer will be reused multiple times, it is necessary so that you can remove as much of the dye as possible. Some chemist have told me that the dye is not a problem but I could not bring myself to put my films in some murky looking developer)
• Start the clock and agitate constantly. Then, following the clock, use this sequence (with the numbers representing minutes and seconds on the clock)
• 01:45 drain pre-soak out of the tank
• 02:00 Pour Bath A in and gently invert 4 times in the first 30 seconds followed by a sharp tap on the bottom of the tank to dislodge any possible air bubbles. Then one gentle inversion every 30 seconds always followed by a sharp tap on the bottom of the tank to dislodge any possible air bubbles.
• 07:15 Pour Bath A out of tank into a jug ready to be transferred back into the bottle.
• 07:30 Pour Bath B in and invert 4 times in the first 30 seconds followed by a sharp tap on the bottom of the tank to dislodge any possible air bubbles. Then one gentle inversion every 30 seconds always followed by a sharp tap on the bottom of the tank to dislodge any possible air bubbles. NOTE: no stop-bath between Bath A and Bath B.
• 12:45 Pour Bath B out of tank into a jug ready to be transferred back into the bottle.
• 13:00 Pour in water stop bath and agitate constantly
• 13:45 Pour water stop bath out into the drain.
• 14:00 Pour in rapid fix (1 + 4) and agitate constantly
• 17:00 Remove films from tank and place into a large jug of water and leave until all of the pink dye is removed from the film then return the film to the fix for a further 2 minutes.
• Finally, wash using the Ilford method.

A quick note on my exposure technique using Delta 400, Barry Thornton's Two-Bath developer and the above processing sequence.

On sunny days I make a reading of a shadow area where I want to retain good detail (i.e not the very darkest part of scene) and this is then place on Zone III (meaning as the exposure meter expects that it is seeing an average scene, it will suggest an exposure that allows too much light to reach the film). This is achieved by either closing the aperture two stops smaller than the meter has suggested or using a shutter speed two times faster than the meter has suggested.

On duller days, the brightest part of the image (excluding the sky) where some detail is required is metered and placed on Zone VIII (meaning as the exposure meter expects that it is seeing an average scene, it will suggest an exposure that allows too little light to reach the film). This is achieved by either opening the aperture three stops wider than the meter has suggested or using a shutter speed three times slower than the meter has suggested.

Best of luck sourcing the chemicals,

David.
www.dsallen.de

 

[twelvetone12]

@mooseontheloose I used A90 will RPX 100 films and I loved it, lately I've been using some old efke 50 vith very good results, and Adox CHS II in sheets. I also run a roll of P30 in it which came out with midtones, I was surprised!

 

[jim appleyard]

Moose, I would also try Thornton's two bath, a very good developer. If you can't/don't want to mix the chems yourself, you can buy a similar kit from Formulary, but shipping to Japan might be expensive. http://stores.photoformulary.com/divided-d-76/
Divided devs usually give you box speed.

Diafine is great, but as said, it gives a speed increase; something you may not want on a bright, sunny day.

You could also try very diluted devs like Rodinal at 1+100, D-76 (regular type) at 1+3. However, I would shoot off a test roll or two to see how it works for you.

 

[Peter Schrager]

I don't use delta 400 but do use Tmax400 and Xtol with great results..this is a Semi Stand Process
XTOL 1+2 at 68 degrees total 13 minutes
I do a prewash 1 minute
pour in developer shake 5x
then I shake at the one minute mark again
then I sake at 3; 6 and 9 and again at 12 ; 13 minutes total
your mileage may vary
you will get negatives with this combo and should work for Delta too although times may vary
I was given this by a forum member many years ago and have used it ever since
Best, Peter

 

[mooseontheloose]

Thanks Peter! I don't use Xtol much (mostly because it is so expensive here in Japan) but I do like it. I'll add it to my experiment list, although I don't really shoot with Tmax.

 

[NedL]

Lots of good advice here, probably better than mine. I like tri-x in diafine, but it definitely has a distinct look to it ( it makes me think of photos from the 1950's for some reason ) and I wouldn't use it for travel unless I needed extra speed. If it were me, I'd use acros and develop it normally ( I use HC-110 dilution E ). The highlights on acros seem to go on forever and it's not hard to print through them if you need to. I think it was you in another thread that mentioned still having a lot of it. That's what I'll be taking on vacation this summer, also in high contrast situations.

Edit: caveat.. I usually give acros about 1/2 to 2/3 stop extra exposure in bright daylight, and "normal" development is the time I've come to shooting it that way. I'm not sure how my development times compare to published times for acros in HC-110, but probably a bit longer. I'll look in my notes if you want it.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Lots of good advice here, probably better than mine. I like tri-x in diafine, but it definitely has a distinct look to it ( it makes me think of photos from the 1950's for some reason ) and I wouldn't use it for travel unless I needed extra speed. If it were me, I'd use acros and develop it normally ( I use HC-110 dilution E ). The highlights on acros seem to go on forever and it's not hard to print through them if you need to. I think it was you in another thread that mentioned still having a lot of it. That's what I'll be taking on vacation this summer, also in high contrast situations.

Edit: caveat.. I usually give acros about 1/2 to 2/3 stop extra exposure in bright daylight, and "normal" development is the time I've come to shooting it that way. I'm not sure how my development times compare to published times for acros in HC-110, but probably a bit longer. I'll look in my notes if you want it.

Actually Ned, that would be helpful. I do plan on bringing lots of Acros this summer (need to burn through my stash to make room for the new emulsion, eventually). I normally soup it in Rodinal or Finol (both shot at 80), but I just recently bought some HC-110, something I've never used because 1) it was soooo pricey here in Japan ($80 for 1L!!!), and then 2) it was taken off the market entirely. But I've been wanting to add it to my arsenal of developers so Freestyle Photo recently came to the rescue for me.

 

[Neal]

Personally, I would use Tri-X in Xtol, D-76/ID-11, DDX or pretty much any of the usual Tri-X developers. It rolls off nicely at the shoulder.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

 

[Murray Kelly]

I have had success with RO80s and stand development using 1ml Rodinal and 1ml HC-110 in 250ml for 45m. I use box speed but derate to ISO 50 if you find that better, before you leave.
Bon voyage.

 

[takilmaboxer]

Tri-X at ASA 250, developed in D-23, 6 minutes at 68 degrees. Simple developer to make. Holds the shadows and keeps the highlights. Works well here in New Mexico at 7000 feet. And, if needed, you can always increase contrast during printing.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I have had success with RO80s and stand development using 1ml Rodinal and 1ml HC-110 in 250ml for 45m. I use box speed but derate to ISO 50 if you find that better, before you leave.
Bon voyage.

What's your agitation scheme for this combo? For Rollei 80/400s I do a semi-stand development with D-76 over 24 minutes (one agitation every 5 minutes). I like the look but I'm looking for other options to try.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I shoot a large portion of my photography involves large SBR and I have had no problem fitting the range in with Kodak XTOL and replenished XTOL using Kodak Tri-X.

 

[destroya]

What's your agitation scheme for this combo? For Rollei 80/400s I do a semi-stand development with D-76 over 24 minutes (one agitation every 5 minutes). I like the look but I'm looking for other options to try.

if you like the retro's try either pyro-hd or beutler. Pyro will give you speeds of 40 and 125, while beutler will give you speeds of 80 and 240 as well as control the contrast. it is much lower than any other developer I have used with those 2 films. The pyro really lets the highlights shine though

 

[DREW WILEY]

The best way to optimize high contrast scenes is to use a film with the longest straight line section of the curve before leveling off onto the toe. That allows you the most separation of shadow values without risk over overexposure which would blow out the highlights. At the present time, what best fits that category are TMax films, both 100 and 400 speed. Shoot them at full box speed. I most often use PMK pyro developer, but there are other good options. Even ordinary D76 will do the trick. But you do need to carefully meter for these films; they're not as forgiving in terms of latitude as other films, but that's directly related to why they can handle extreme contrast better. The only film currently on the market with an even longer straight line is Fomapan/Arista 200; but the quality control is dicey and its going to be too grainy for most people in small camera usage. My opinion is based on a LOT of experience shooting and printing high contrast scenes in various formats, all the way from 35mm to 8X10. ACROS won't dig down into the shadows quite as much as TMax, but I have successfully used it on many high altitude trips where gleaming snow or glacial polish on white granite had to be factored into the same image as deep forest shadows. I use PMK pyro for that too, but rate it at 50 to support the shadows better. It's a wonderful film in several respects.