Best entry route into Large Format?

John Kasaian · Oct 18, 2006

You've had lots of good advice, so I'll add my carrot to the pot. Consider a B&J or Agfa Ansco 5x7 that will accept a 4x5(or5x4) back. These aren't terribly expensive and they'll allow you to shoot polaroids, color, as well as monochrome. You can pop on the 5x7 back and make lovely contacts & explore alternative processes....a lot of versatility.
Good luck!

Matt5791 · Oct 19, 2006

That's an interesting point - I was wondering about the possibility of using 4x5 with a 5x7 camera.

How often can this be done?

Thanks.

Roger Hicks · Oct 19, 2006

Jerevan said:
This little article could probably get almost any sane person (or not, depending on viewpoint) to start searching high, low and everywhere for 5x7 cameras:

http://shutterbug.com/equipmentreviews/medium_large_format/0106nottoo/

Dear Jerevan,

Thanks for the plug. (I take it you noticed who wrote it...)

Cheers,

R.

Jerevan · Oct 19, 2006

Of course I did, Roger.

I was on the verge of writing something like "our esteemed aquitanian fellow did this" but decided people would notice who wrote it anyway.

Roger Hicks · Oct 19, 2006

Matt5791 said:
That's an interesting point - I was wondering about the possibility of using 4x5 with a 5x7 camera.

How often can this be done?

Thanks.

Almost always. If the camera doesn't come with a 4x5 back, you can mount one on a sheet of wood (for a few cameras, metal) of the right thickness and interchange that with the 5x7 back. Buy the 4x5 back new from Cambo or buy a 'wrecker' 4x5 and take the back off that. As the article Jerevan quoted mentions, I have 5x7 and 4x5 reducing backs for my De Vere 8x10.

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks · Oct 19, 2006

Scott Peters said:
With a 5 x 7 enalrger in hand, you can do both contact prints and enlarged images. I would lean towards a 5 x 7.

You may ultimately go for an 8 x 10....

Outside of some of the great deals others here have pointed out, 4 x 5 would seem to be the most 'reasonable'.

On a final note, I think you will love it and never turn back.

Good luck and email or post with questions along the way.

Dear Scott,

I've always thought that 8x10 is like 5x4 -- not just the ugly aspect ratio, but neither one thing nor the other, and chosen mainly because of convenience and availability. If you want to go beyond 5x7 inch (and I am not convinced of the wisdom of this) then there's a lot to be said for ULF. At the week-end I took my first shots with the biggest format I've ever used, 12x15 inch, though I've not developed them yet; I am only half looking forward to this part of it.

Having said that, I like shooting Hollywood-style portraits with an 8x10 and I'm just off to try Fotoman's new 8x10 point and shoot.

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks · Oct 19, 2006

Jerevan said:
Of course I did, Roger.

Oh dear. Now you make me feel embarrrasingly pushy. But I guess I have to be. That was certainly far from a typical Shutterbug piece, and that's why I'm trying to build The Photo School at www.rogerandfrances.com: I just can't get that excited about digital. Similar things are happening with books. You and I might think it more rational to publish the one new book on B+W, instead of the 750th me-too digital manual, but publishers don't think this way.

Cheers,

R.

Tom Kershaw · Oct 19, 2006

Roger,

How many books on Photoshop do people really need? I'd guess 3 or 4 including the manual. Most of them appear to be rehashes of the same material, I can't imagine the sales figures are that good.

Tom.

Ole · Oct 19, 2006

Roger Hicks said:
At the week-end I took my first shots with the biggest format I've ever used, 12x15 inch, though I've not developed them yet; I am only half looking forward to this part of it.

Those big floppy negatives can be quite intimidating, can't they? In fact I've concluded that 24x30cm (close to 9.5x12") is large enough for me; the 30x40cm (12x16") is just too "unhaulable".

I've discovered that processing in a JOBO print drum takes much of the worry out of processing - except that you can't develop by inspection that way.

In fact I use JOBO print drums for processing everything larger than 4x5", including 5x7" / 13x18cm, 18x24cm, 24x30cm and 30x40cm. Even the 13x18 colour slides come out nice!

Jerevan · Oct 19, 2006

Roger Hicks said:
Oh dear. Now you make me feel embarrrasingly pushy.

It wasn't my intention! Keep up the work. Every good article and every positive mention of analog and film outside of APUG is a step forward.

Soeren · Oct 19, 2006

Roger Hicks said:
Oh dear. Now you make me feel embarrrasingly pushy. But I guess I have to be. That was certainly far from a typical Shutterbug piece, and that's why I'm trying to build The Photo School at www.rogerandfrances.com: I just can't get that excited about digital. Similar things are happening with books. You and I might think it more rational to publish the one new book on B+W, instead of the 750th me-too digital manual, but publishers don't think this way.

Cheers,

R.

And you are doing a great job Roger. I enjoy reading your (and Frances)articles on web or in B&W. I wish B&W had your collumn instead or Amateur Photographer which I don't buy cause usually there is nothing else in that mag that I find interesting. I was thinking about subscribing to your site but havn't come to that yet. It was because of the articles on 5X7 I started considering it. Is this to much? Well don't blush
Cheers
Søren

nworth · Oct 19, 2006

For just plain low price, the press cameras can't be beat. But you have to accept their limitations - limited movements, little or no choice in lenses, weight, limited bellows draw. Within these limitations (and they are not as severe as they may look), the press cameras are often excellent.

But my gut instinct is to recommend a 4X5 field camera. If you are mostly interested in studio work, a monorail might be a consideration instead of a field camera. Several are available new at low prices (e.g. the Tachihara). Good examples are also readily available on the used market. You can grow with one of these. They take a wide selection of lenses, and lenses for this format are not very expensive, especially used. You've already mentioned the variety of film available, and the film doesn't cost too much. Most of these cameras will give you all the movements and bellows draw you will ever need, and they are generally quite light weight.

The 5X7 is tempting, however. You can get a useful contact print from a 5X7. An enlarger is not a problem for you (you have a good one for this size). The 5X7 aspect ratio is a bit more appealing than 4X5. The cameras are a bit more expensive, as are film, film holders, and lenses, but not a whole lot. You can usually get accessory backs to take 4X5 film holders in case you really need to use a film that is only available in 4X5. The camera construction for both field and monorail systems is similar to 4X5s, but often a bit more rugged, so all the same advantages apply.

In the end, it's a very personal choice. I would lean toward something you could live with for a long time.

TheFlyingCamera · Oct 19, 2006

Another thing to think about for 5x7- you can always get a 4x5 reducing back for the times you want to shoot some emulsion that you can't get in 5x7, or if you want to make a mild long lens turn into a blazing super-telephoto. Also, as many 5x7s take larger lensboards than 4x5s do, you'll have an easier time using some of those large old weird lenses in barrel or in strange mega-shutters like Betax or Ilex #5's. While it CAN be done, you really don't want to mount a lens in an Ilex #5 on a camera that only takes Linhof lensboards.

Roger Hicks · Oct 19, 2006

Soeren said:
wish B&W had your collumn instead or Amateur Photographer ...
Cheers
Søren

Dear Soeren,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm waiting for advance copies of a collection of the first couple of years' AP columns. I'll ask the publisher about a special APUG rate...

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks · Oct 19, 2006

Ole said:
Those big floppy negatives can be quite intimidating, can't they? In fact I've concluded that 24x30cm (close to 9.5x12") is large enough for me; the 30x40cm (12x16") is just too "unhaulable".

I've discovered that processing in a JOBO print drum takes much of the worry out of processing - except that you can't develop by inspection that way.

In fact I use JOBO print drums for processing everything larger than 4x5", including 5x7" / 13x18cm, 18x24cm, 24x30cm and 30x40cm. Even the 13x18 colour slides come out nice!

Dear Ole,

I've also found out what an 1895-1910 Gandolfi 12x15 might fetch...

I'll try the drum route, though!

Cheers,

R.

Matt5791 · Oct 23, 2006

Is something like this viable?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Agfa-Ansco-5-...466QQihZ009QQcategoryZ627QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks,
Matt

TheFlyingCamera · Oct 23, 2006

That's a perfectly viable camera. I have that same camera with the 4x5 back on it. They're rugged, fairly full-featured. They've got massive bellows draw so you can even use some long lenses with them without sacrificing close-focus capacity. Only downside is they won't focus anything wider than about a 120mm lens at infinity without a recessed lensboard.

Matt5791 · Oct 23, 2006

Thanks for that - are recessed lens boards a straight forward thing to come by?

Thanks,
Matt

TheFlyingCamera · Oct 23, 2006

Matt5791 said:
Thanks for that - are recessed lens boards a straight forward thing to come by?

Thanks,
Matt

Not really. They're a bit unusual. You can make one pretty simply out of plywood if you're even modestly handy. Alternately, I happen to have one, undrilled, that I'm willing to part with. PM me for details.

Matt5791 · Oct 24, 2006

Thanks for that - I am starting to think that this model may not be that suitable in the UK,

But thanks anyway

Matt

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