Best coupled RF/VF combo in a 6x6?

[ProfessorC1983]

This has come up a few times on the margins of recent threads but I wasn't able to find the question asked directly (or my search-fu has failed me...)

What cameras should I be looking at if I want the best possible combo (coupled) rangefinder+viewfinder experience -- in terms of focus/composition accuracy as well as general ease-of-use -- in a relatively light, handholdable 6x6? (Not looking to start another "what fits in a pocket" debate here!)

I have a Nettar 517/16, love the weight and size, but even with an accessory uncoupled RF I find focusing at wider apertures almost impossible, and the viewfinder doesn't seem especially accurate. So I find myself reaching for the Kiev 60 SLR even for short trips around the neighborhood, which is often more camera than I need...

It looks like the Super Ikonta III 531/16, Agfa Isolette III and Certo Six are all candidates? I'm looking mainly at postwar folders but open to other options. Again, don't necessarily care about lens quality/sharpness/etc. but if I wanted to maximize the VF+RF experience where else should I look? TIA!

 

[Dan Daniel]

Super Fujica 6 is also nice, but rarer than most. Mamiya 6, early folder model, not the later interchangeable lens model. And of course the later Mamiya 6 if you want to jump straight to the top of the mountain.

Many Zeiss Super Ikontas out there of the older style. Not sure of the numbering. Tessar 2.8 lens, stalk rangefinder but doesn't need to be folded down. Usually gets 11 shots per roll. A littel cleaning and they work well.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Of the ones you're considering I can only speak to the Certo Six, and I think it is best described as adequate. It works, but isn't the brightest or easiest to see. It does get an unfair bad reputation because the mirror used in the 50s degrades, so needs replacing, but even once replaced it will never blow your socks off. It is not as good as my Koni Omega 100, which is another medium format rangefinder but not really what you're looking for...

 

[xya]

have a look at my website, there are quite some which meet your criteria https://www.120folder.com/

 

[Alan9940]

The Agfa Isolette III does not have a coupled rangefinder. I had one for awhile and it's a fine camera, but I much prefer my Zeiss Super Ikonta III which does have a coupled rangefinder. Never owned a Mamiya 6 folder, but I understand they're very nice cameras, too.

 

[Auer]

I feel people are asking a lot from these old folders, who's major points are portability and fast zone focusing in the f/11-16 range.
Theyre really point and shoots imo. Sunny 16 and all that...

 

[ic-racer]

Other than the Mamiya 6, most cameras I'd recommend are sized a little larger at 6x7 to 6x9. For example Horseman VH-R, Mamiya Super 23, Graflex XL, Linhof Technica 70 or Technica 23, Fuji 6x7. If you are looking for a more modern camera, the Voigtlander Bessa III looks nice, but I have never used one. The rangefinder base of that one also looks smaller than most of the others.

 

[moto-uno]

It doesn't get mentioned a lot , but the Welta Weltur has an accurate RF and even with my 70 yr old eyes I find it easy to focus .
Although the lens is uncoated , I've gotten great Provia 100F slides from it . It's a mechanical jewel and focuses by moving the
entire lens assembly . Good Luck , Peter

 

[Alex Varas]

Iskra has a very nice viewfinder and it's coupled.
Chevron has the rangefinder under the viewfinder but no need to move the camera, I can handle it fine and viewfinder is really good.
I'm glass wearer and I'm always looking for this extra.

 

[Anaxagore]

The Agfa Automatic 66 has always been a pleasure to use. Shutter only goes to 1/250 in automatic (aperture priority) mode, 1/300 in manual mode, and ASA setting from 25 to 200. These (and availability/price of a fully working one) are the only limitations I see.

 

[Neil Grant]

...the viewfinder on the Agfa Isolette 3 is very small and not a great experience for the user. It does help to keep the camera really small and light though.

 

[LittleParallelograms]

Probably a Certo Six for viewfinder accuracy, and a Mamiya-6 (folder) for ergonomics. But you could put a Voigtländer Kontur finder on the Mamiya and then it would be more accurate up close. The Iskra viewfinder is nice but not what I would call accurate. Great lens, though.

 

[moto-uno]

^ I owned an Iskra 1 for a few years , really great lens , had no problem focusing with the viewfinder , BUT , crap was that camera one problem after another .
Too bad , cause I really enjoyed it's heft and fit . But , in a fit I took a hammer to it . Probably my most satisfying release of frustration ! YMMV . Peter

 

[Donald Qualls]

I only have two 6x6 with single window RF/VF -- a Super Ikonta B 532/16 and a Mamiya 6 (dual format, window-only model folder) -- and both have nice viewfinders. I'm going to give the win to the Mamiya, because the eyepiece on the Super Ikonta is tiny and has so little eye relief I'm always afraid I'll scratch my glasses trying to see it well enough to frame accurately. If you have younger eyes or don't wear glasses on a routine basis, there would be much less difference and the Super Ikonta would get the win due to the rotating prism on the front standard instead of a moving prism/mirror under the top plate (though the Mamiya still barely wins on image quality, likely due to the moving focal plane as opposed to front element focusing). The Mamiya is lighter, too.

 

[jssaraiva]

My experience with Seagull 203 has been great (the versions with metallic winding lever): lightweight, good glass, easy load and unload, internal mask for 6x4.5, accurate coupled rangefinder, etc. I’ve also owned or used Super Ikonta 534, Isolette III, Bessa II and Record III and would also recommend those, (not all 6x6) but the little cheap Seagull is an hidden gem (I own 3 at the moment...).

 

[xya]

The Agfa Automatic 66 has always been a pleasure to use. Shutter only goes to 1/250 in automatic (aperture priority) mode, 1/300 in manual mode, and ASA setting from 25 to 200. These (and availability/price of a fully working one) are the only limitations I see.

are you serious? have you seen a working one below a $2,500 price tag? if yes, please contact me, I would really be grateful. and yes, it would be a pleasure...

 

[Anaxagore]

are you serious? have you seen a working one below a $2,500 price tag? if yes, please contact me, I would really be grateful. and yes, it would be a pleasure...

When I got mine, fully working, in 2006, it was (IIRC) €1100 - without original box nor manual but with leather case and shipping included; so there are such good opportunities. I suppose it's a combination of luck and of carefully monitoring all places where such a jewel may appear. I keep an eye on these and I agree that in the past few years, prices have been skyrocketing even for those with defective light meter; some patience is therefore required to find an affordable one, but that does not mean there couldn't be one popping up tomorrow, so I thought it still deserved a mention in this thread (especially as the OP does not mention a price limit, just size and user experience).

 

[Donald Qualls]

When I got mine, fully working, in 2006, it was (IIRC) €1100

Just about the bottom of the camera price curve, right before film started to become trendy again.

 

[DGS]

I'm a bit late to the party, but the Super Ikonta B 532/16 has a very nice rangefinder. It's compact for what it is, but heavy, being all metal. Great Tessar lens, auto stop advance. And it has strap lugs, unlike the Mamiya Six or Super Fujica 6. The Mamiya 6 folder is also easy to focus via the dial on the back, and it's very compact.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I have both a 532/16 and a Mamiya 6 folder (older model, no auto-stop film advance). I find the Zeiss viewfinder hard to use with glasses; the Mamiya's ocular window is much larger.

 

[André Detry]

I m just comparing Mamiya 6 and super Fujica 6 , both with 75mm f3.5 ; the camera are very similar in size and weight. The viewfinder of the Fuji is a little bit better than the Mamiya in my opinion, and it´s easier to focus with Fuji. The minimal distance of the Mamiya is 1 mt vs 1.3 mts for Fuji.