Best-bang-for-your-buck type lenses?

jasonjoo · May 27, 2008

I finally bit the bullet and purchased my first LF camera (sort of)! I placed my order for a Chamonix 45N-1 with Hugo today and am expecting the camera sometime in July/August. Still, there is a lot of work/research needed to be done.

For now, I am looking for a lens for the camera. I'm looking for a wide to normal lens that's some what affordable. I'd like to limit my budget to around $5-600 (I also need to invest in some film holders, lens board, and maybe even a 6x12 roll film back).

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Jason

(Also, where's a good place to buy? I'm looking at KEH right now since I've had good experiences with them before. I'm not so sure about eBay, but I'm willing to look there as well...)

Dan Fromm · May 27, 2008

Jason, if you can wait, go to eBay, bid low on likely lenses in shutter and budget for a shutter overhaul. Eventually you'll get a decent lens in a working shutter. Read the FAQs on this board's parent site to get an idea of which lenses to look for, and don't scorn older ones.

If you can't wait, KEH is reliable, so is Midwest (www.mpex.com). If you buy used, budget for a shutter overhaul. Look to Calumet too. I've never used one of these http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CL4150/ but the word on them is that they're not bad at all. Look for a used one ...

Uhner · May 27, 2008

I think you should listen to Dan’s advice.

However, I’m a bit confused by this:

Dan Fromm said:
Read the FAQs on this board's parent site to get an idea of which lenses to look for, and don't scorn older ones.

Do you mean the FAQ on http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

Uhner · May 27, 2008

Anyway Jason. Take a look at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

You will find a lot of useful information on large format lenses on that site.

Dan Fromm · May 27, 2008

Uhner said:
I think you should listen to Dans advice.

However, Im a bit confused by this:

Do you mean the FAQ on http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

Yes. Another stupid error. The last couple of days have been filled with them. I'm beginning to worry.

Anyway, thanks for the correction.

Anupam Basu · May 27, 2008

The most bang per buck I have ever got out of an LF lens was the Optar WA 90mm - $100, tiny and sharp!

Congratulations on the Chamonix. Any website that shows current prices. It's starting to be a very close race indeed for me between the Chaomonix and a Zeiss Ikon.

Ole · May 27, 2008

I used to recommend older convertible Schneider Symmars, but lately the price of the convertibles seems to have gone up to where you can get a Symmar-S cheaper. So that's my recommendation: A 150mm or 135mm Schneider Symmar-S. Either will have sufficient coverage, but the 150mm comes close to letting you twist the bellows into a pretzel.

Ian Grant · May 27, 2008

Following Ole's suggestion remember that the Sironar N's and Caltars (Sironars mostly) are also excellent, some say better than the Symmars.

Ian

Trevor Crone · May 27, 2008

Certainly look out for a 135 Sironar-N, little wide of standard. Has a 200mm image circle so there is a wee bit of room for movements.

I've had one for a few years, before they went apo, and it's one lens I try and keep in the kit wherever I go. Small, light and certainly sharp.

TheFlyingCamera · May 27, 2008

Jason- I posted this in your earlier thread about what camera, but I'll repeat it here. Since you've expressed an interest in landscape and portrait work, for the landscape stuff I'd suggest a 90 f8 Super Angulon. The older ones can be found fairly reasonably. A 210 f5.6 from any of the major modern manufacturers will do you quite well for the other end - it will let you do long(er) shots with the landscape, closeups (not quite 1:1 macro) and also work well for portraits. Since you live in the LA area, before you buy a single lens, I'd recommend going in to Calumet or Samy's or one of the other big rental houses that carries LF gear and RENT a 210, a 150, and a 90, one at a time, and spend a weekend (or two) shooting with just that one lens. Develop your film, make your contact sheets, and look at your results. Get a feel for which lens does what, and how you like working with it - see if/how it fits your vision.

John Kasaian · May 27, 2008

Besides the convertible symmar, look at Kodak, Wollensak and Ilex lenses for the biggest bang.

seawolf66 · May 27, 2008

We all have our preferences, my self , I check out everybody , even if not recomomend by any one: listed are place I look around for LF stuff:
keh.com,adorama.com, igorcamera.com,equnixphotograpy.com and then there are places like antique and classic cameras site other will mention others : Good luck and enjoy:

k_jupiter · May 27, 2008

Dan Fromm said:
Yes. Another stupid error. The last couple of days have been filled with them. I'm beginning to worry.

Anyway, thanks for the correction.

We are all getting old Dan. The boss occasionally comes up and needs to know what the status of some project he casually threw out a day or two earlier. I assure him he will have it in the morning, then I spend the next half hour going through meeting notes to see what I had signed up to do. Duh!

Jason, lots of good advice, as always. Stay away from Tessar type lens in shorter lengths. Not because they are bad, aux contrair. I have a 135/4.5 Zeiss lens that is incredibly sharp... on a piece of 3x4 film, but the coverage won't be enough for your 4x5 film. Longer lengths have enough movements built in.

Other than that, beg, borrow, or steal some of the Fuji 'W' or 'SW' lens.The Seiko shutters are pretty bullet proof, the glass is superb, the price, usually reasonable.

Get a number of film holders, clean them, mark them.

Get a good meter, most here like spot meters, I like to walk. My Luna Pro has served me for a long time, with only an upgrade for the battery required in 24 years.

Best of luck.

tim in san jose

Nick Zentena · May 27, 2008

$500 to 600 is a big budget for a 150mm. You can even find new ones in that focal length. So don't think you're scrimping with that size.

For newer IMHO it's hard to beat the Fuji lenses.

The Caltars depending on vintage are Scheinders,Rodenstock or a forget which US company for the older ones. No matter which they are cheaper then the exact same lens with a different name plate.

Just watch www.keh.com or www.mpex.com. I've bought lenses for less then the value of the shutter. You'll get return rights etc.

Nicholas Lindan · May 27, 2008

jasonjoo said:
I am looking for a lens for [my new 4x5] camera. I'd like to limit my budget to around $5 - 600 ...

Best bang for the buck... probably a pinhole: at 0 bucks it doesn't matter the bang.

After that, with a $5 budget, I'd say a 165mm Rapid Rectilinear. You can sometimes find them for $5, but more likely figure $15-20, and you will have to buy the Kodak Autographic it is attached to. The RR was good enough for Edward Weston and his peppers and shells, and so the lens has an adequate amount of bang.

You need to pick the focal length you want. For landscape a 90mm is probably ideal, though the prices for good 90mm's are out of line as a decent 90's will cover 5x7.

The 90mm 6.8 Angulon can be found for $100-200, and though it has no movements, a good example can be very good indeed - and a bad example can be really horrid. Look for ones stamped 'Linhoff' - it doesn't guarantee it is a really good one but it does guarantee it is not a dog. The shutter these things normally come it is not really suited for view camera work as there is no dedicated shutter hold-open for focusing.

At $600 you are into diminishing returns and you would have to look far and wide to find something unacceptable. Bang for the buck will be a function of finding one at a low price.

jasonjoo · May 27, 2008

Thank you all for the excellent advice and suggestions. A "normal" lens would be useable, but I'm looking for a little wider too. Because I'd like to use movements with the lens, what is a good compromise between a wide lens and one that will also allow me to use SOME movements on the camera?

Jason

Trevor Crone · May 27, 2008

jasonjoo said:
Thank you all for the excellent advice and suggestions. A "normal" lens would be useable, but I'm looking for a little wider too. Because I'd like to use movements with the lens, what is a good compromise between a wide lens and one that will also allow me to use SOME movements on the camera?

Jason

The Rodenstock 135 Sironar-N I refered to above is a little gem. Also the 125 from Fuji (see link below), certainly looks good on paper. This is a UK link but I'm sure there are quite a few in the US.

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=1321&PT_ID=382&P=125/5.6-CM-W

TheFlyingCamera · May 27, 2008

You're a couple years too late to get one in your budget but you MIGHT get lucky and find one cheap - a 110mm f8 WA Dagor. I got mine on Ebay a few years back. It covers 5x7 WITH movement, and is very compact. It is wider than normal, but not quite as wide as a 90mm. You could not pry mine out of my cold dead hands now.

vet173 · May 27, 2008

It doesn't matter what you think you want, get a 210 if your only going to have one. Use nothing but this the first year and you will learn a lot more on, how to see.

Nick Zentena · May 27, 2008

jasonjoo said:
Because I'd like to use movements with the lens, what is a good compromise between a wide lens and one that will also allow me to use SOME movements on the camera?

Some movements? A 75mm will support some movements. But I'm thinking you've got the wrong idea about something. I'm just not sure what.

Hugo Zhang · May 27, 2008

Jason,

I have a Sironar N 210mm f/5.6 lens from my 45 days. Exposed less than 50 sheets of film and has been sitting in my closet for the last few years. I can lend it to you in August. You can use it until you find your ideal lens.

Hugo

Ole · May 27, 2008

Nicholas Lindan said:
The 90mm 6.8 Angulon can be found for $100-200, and though it has no movements, a good example can be very good indeed - and a bad example can be really horrid. Look for ones stamped 'Linhoff' - it doesn't guarantee it is a really good one but it does guarantee it is not a dog. The shutter these things normally come it is not really suited for view camera work as there is no dedicated shutter hold-open for focusing.

The Linhof stamp doesn't really matter with Angulons, it's more the temperatures they have been subjected to. Since you live in California, I would recommend you not to buy an Angulon locally! The balsam the lens elements are cemented with tends to slip when subjected to high temperatures over long time - S. Cal type climate, that is. All of mine have been exellent, all have been bought in northern Europe. Note that this is a unique problem for Angulons, and only affects old Angulons. Not Super Angulons, nor the very last Angulons.

The 90mm f:6.8 Angulon comes in a regular #0 shutter, which has the usual "T" setting for focussing. It's only some of the older 90mm f:8 Super Angulons (and shorter) which are in the dreaded #00 shutter without T setting.

My current wide-angle lineup for 4x5" is a 47mm SA XL, a 65mm Ilex Acugon, a 90mm f:8 SA, a 90mm f:6.8 Angulon, and a 120mm f:6.8 Angulon. The two shortest barely cover the format, and I use the 90/8 over the 90/6.8 when i need lots and lots of movements.

To begin with I'd concentrate on the 90 to 120mm range, or 135mm "short normal". Then a 210mm next if you feel you need a longer lens, or a superwide if that's what you think you need. I wouldn't recommend a 210mm as a first lens for anyone not living in a steamrollered-flat area.

David A. Goldfarb · May 27, 2008

Wide to normal in your budget range, I like the suggestions of a 135mm, such as a convertible Symmar, Symmar-S, Sironar-N or Caltar II-N. I've owned both the convertible Symmar and the Sironar-N/Caltar II-N, and the Sironar is sharper with a slightly larger image circle. I'm not sure how it compares to the Symmar-S, but it should be comparable. You've got enough budget for one of those lenses and a 90/6.8 Angulon, which are both very compact lenses that use small 40.5 mm filters (not sure about the Symmar-S, but the others do), so they're a good combination. When I'm traveling light with 4x5", I bring just these two lenses, and in a pinch you can get a longer lens of about 210mm by removing the front element of the 135mm (soft wide open, but sharpens up when stopped down).

jasonjoo · May 27, 2008

Hugo Zhang said:
Jason,

I have a Sironar N 210mm f/5.6 lens from my 45 days. Exposed less than 50 sheets of film and has been sitting in my closet for the last few years. I can lend it to you in August. You can use it until you find your ideal lens.

Hugo

Thanks Hugo! That is very kind of you!

Nick, I was assuming that it was harder to use the tilt/shift of a view camera with wider lenses (do cheaper wide angles not have a big enough image circle?).

Rather than make a fool out of myself even more, what is a good book to read to learn more about LF cameras? Does Ansel Adams have any books on this?

Thanks,

Jason

Uhner · May 27, 2008

I think that hitting the books is a good idea. You can read Adams: the Camera.

However, I believe that the best book on the subject might be Stroebel: View Camera Technique.

Best-bang-for-your-buck type lenses?

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