Best? B+W film for 800/1600ASA

[kram]

Folks, I am looking for abit more speed than my standard 400ASA film, for shooting indoors. I have tried Ilford delta 3200 at 3200 and 1600ASA, but was wondering if you have found a less 'grainy' film for shooting at 1600ASA.
Also, what films have people found good at 800ASA up to 1600ASA. Pushed; XP2 super, HP5 plus, Delta 400, TMax 400... etc?

 

[keithwms]

I am skeptical about pushing xp2.

How about neopan 400?

 

[kram]

Yep, include neopan 400.

 

[keithwms]

Best thing you can do to beat grain is jump formats

 

[fschifano]

Easy. TMY, or now TMY-2, No special processing necessary for up to EI 800, with EI of 1600 being quite doable in standard developers like D-76 and XTOL. Then you have the other option of Tri-X in Diafine. Quite good in the 1250 to 1600 range, but a completely different look. Can be a bit grainy, but altogether not bad in that respect.

 

[Tom Duffy]

Pushing film will mean less shadow detail. Fuji Neopan 1600 has a real speed of 650 and is very fine grained for the speed. I agree with Keith, though. I'd rather shoot Delta 3200 in 6x4.5.

Take care,
Tom

 

[Harry Lime]

TMY-2 pushes to 800 with no sweat.
Delta3200
Neopan1600 @ 800
Tri-X looks really good at 800.

Use Xtol or Ilford DD-X.

 

[Ian Grant]

Pushed XP-2 has always worked best for me, superb tonality, good tight unobtrusive grain.

Ian

 

[kram]

Thanks for the input. I use mainly colour in my Mamiya 7 and B+W in 35mm (and 4x5). The reason I asked is that shooting at f2 with a 35mm lens at 1/8-15 hand held is not great. I have been thinking on splashing out on a f1.4 35mm (hand held at 1/30 I'm OK with +plus less subject movement), but a cheaper option is to use a faster film! As I said, I have used Delta 3200 at 3200 (a bit grey - could be because it's a 1600 ASA film?), and it did not improve as much as I thought at 1600ASA.
No one has suggeted

 

[kram]

Pressing the tab key by accident posted the above?? before I had finished.

No one has suggested Delta 400 at 800ASA. Is kodak T-Max 400 better (than Delta) at being pushed 1-2 stops. Anyone supporting HP5 plus at 800+ (or is it too 'grainy').

 

[keithwms]

Again, I think it's a big function of format size. hp5+ pushed to 800 is lovely in 4x5....

I just wrote a crazy blog on grain as a function of ISO and format size that may or may not amuse you.

Incidentally I recently shot some fuji pro z, rated at 1600 at developed for 3200, in 645 format and I quite liked it:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Provia 400x will push quite well and might be worth trying in 35mm format. Obviously you aren't going to have the range with a slide film but, hey, something has to give!

 

[pentaxuser]

One of the problems with any internet site is I never know whether something that I have mentioned before in other similar threads has already been noted but assuming it has not here goes. D3200 at box speed and developed in Perceptol has produced for me prints where grain is noticeably less than those from negs developed in ID11. So developer can have an appreciable effect on negs and then on the prints.

If you have to go all the way to 3200 for the light conditions then if you haven't tried this combo, you might like to do so. It's not a miracle solution of course and in 35mm with 3200 film and prints much above 5x7 then grain is going to be apparent. I print small most of the time. You might be OK at up to 8x10.

Above that and combined with a dislike of grain then MF really has to be the next stop.

pentaxuser

 

[kram]

Well, it was the grain and poor shadow detail.

 

[dynachrome]

I like TMZ at 1600 or 3200 in straight Microphen. There is grain but the pattern is sharp and tight.

 

[Shangheye]

My weapon of choice in MF is currently Delta 400 at E-800 in DDx for 10.5 mins... a few examples in my gallery. I have also used it at 1600 at 35mm, and have no regrets. By far the best film I have used to date for push processing. I have an HP5 120 roll pushed to 1600 in my "to be developed" drawer. Once I have done so, I will let you know, though in general I think HP5 will be less forgiving on the grain side. K

 

[Larry Bullis]

I am skeptical about pushing xp2.

How about neopan 400?

I'm skeptical about pushing anything.

Be sure that you choose a developer that is phenidone based, and I'd suggest mixing it yourself. Split it into a and b, and cycle through a series of iterations of what they seem to call "stand development" around here. The term is new to me, but I've used the technique for years. It is possible to get a bit of boost in the shadows and still keep the highlights from going nuts. Of course it is limited, but getting something for nothing is alway limited. There's always a price.

That is, A, then B, then rinse. Return to A, then B, then rinse. etc. I've done this in several cycles. It works up to a point of diminishing returns; I suspect that 3 cycles is about all you are going to get usefully. There is a lot of information about how to split developers on APUG, so I won't describe it. I haven't seen any mention about repeating cycles, though. I don't think anyone believes me. It would be great to test.

Diafine is a great developer that does this already. You don't even have to build it yourself. It's built on phenidone, and it is used as a two bath. They claim enhanced speed, but I'm (as I say) always skeptical. Despite all claims, I haven't actually seen results that confirm them. If you use phenidone in a developer (it seems to be just about the only reducing agent that gives rated speed) be sure it dissolves. I mix in hot water. The directions for Diafine say to mix at 125ºF. I don't think it dissolves at 125. It mixes fine at a much higher temp, up around 180. Of course, try not to beat air into it. Hot developer with oxygen = oxidation.

The developer you use is at least as important as the film. Often more important. Most important is to get a good match of film and developer for your particular needs.

 

[mrtoml]

I have pushed HP5 to 800 and 1600. Grainy, but I like it. Especially good with DDX.

TriX in diafine is good too. Again grainy, but you can get 1200-1600.

 

[eddym]

I shoot HP5+ at 1600 in theaters (I shoot ballet) with excellent results. In medium format I shoot it at 800 when I need more contrast. I have pushed it as far as 3200, but the contrast often gets way too high.
Years ago I tried pushing Delta 400, and it sucked. It may be improved now. As long as I have HP5+, I have no need to find out.
I shoot Delta 320 when I need to go to 3200 or beyond, but it is grainier.

 

[David Brown]

I have used Delta 3200 at 3200 and it did not improve as much as I thought at 1600ASA.

Try shooting at 1600 but developing for the 3200 time.

 

[Paul Howell]

I shoot TMAX 3200 at 1600 and develop at 3200 times using Clayton F76 or Microdal X stock or 1:3. In 35mm TMAX in Microdal 1:30 stock is almost grainless, in stock a little more grain with increased sharpness. You can also try Tmax 3200 at 1200 in Dianfine, very fine grain and good shadow details. You can also develop HP5 or TriX in a devided developer like Dianfine without loss of shadow details and a 1 stop increase in film speed, but pushing in most standard developers will result in some loss of shadow detail. Other use Edwal FG or FX or Acufine with some increase in speed, but I dont know how well these developers hold the shadow details. I usally dont push MF, but if the need arisises I would go with Tmax 3200 rated at 1600 and develop in Microdal X stock.

 

[Rolleijoe]

Folks, I am looking for abit more speed than my standard 400ASA film, for shooting indoors. I have tried Ilford delta 3200 at 3200 and 1600ASA, but was wondering if you have found a less 'grainy' film for shooting at 1600ASA.
Also, what films have people found good at 800ASA up to 1600ASA. Pushed; XP2 super, HP5 plus, Delta 400, TMax 400... etc?

Fuji Neopan 1600! Gets you right where you need to be, and processed in Rodinal, crisp accutance. This film has the grain of a 200-400 speed b&w. Super fine grain for the speed.

 

[Chazzy]

Fuji Neopan 1600! Gets you right where you need to be, and processed in Rodinal, crisp accutance. This film has the grain of a 200-400 speed b&w. Super fine grain for the speed.

But is it available in 120, or only miniature format?

 

[Rolleijoe]

Unfortunately, only 35mm. Turns out they tried it in 120 a few years ago, but there wasn't enough interest. Fuji, however says Neopan can go as high as 1600 with compensated processing. Try their website.

If it *were* available in 120, there would be a few bricks of it in my freezer, that's for sure!

Hope this helps you out

 

[hywel]

There is no simple answer.

In the end you are going to have to try them for yourself: pretty much every film in every developer seems to have at least one proponent. Personally my "testing" (using and having a look) led me to sort of settle on HP5@1600 in DDX in the Leica but Neopan1600 in the Olympus Epic where I have to go with the DX coding and in the Mamiya 7, Delta3200@1600 in DDX at 3200 times.

So as I said, there's no simple answer.

 

[P C Headland]

For 35mm, Neopan 1600 in, of all things, Rodinal. I've tried it at 1600 and 1000, and both seem to work very well.

Or, one that I have had very good results from, TriX (120) @ 1000 in Diafine.