Best all round paper developer

Gerald C Koch · Jul 12, 2011

jnanian said:
jthe robusto coffee that i used for my developer is the ugly cousin
of arabica coffee ... it is not liked by connoisseurs .. it is not shade grown &C ...
i wonder if it is grown in the same way that the more expensive "connoisseur-coffee" is grown,
in the plantations you mention...

You are right about robusto coffee. The only thing going for it is that it has twice the caffeine as the arabica. A friend of mine used to say that coffee doesn't have to taste good, it just has to work.

Since the useful life of a coffee tree is around seven years, the practice was just to move on to another portion of the forest and plant anew. Thankfully, the growers have become a bit more responsible.

Have you ever considered the Beutler developer. The working developer is highly dilute so that it has little effect on the environment. It uses just three ingredients; metol, sodium sulfite, and sodium carbonate. I used it for years as my general purpose film developer when I was a struggling student with little money.

When used for prints does a coffee developer cause any staining with FB papers? This is something I've wondered about.

Adrian Twiss · Jul 12, 2011

I have been very satisfied with a) Liquid Dektol (actually Kodak Polymax) and b) Ilford PQ universal (but I would not use it for film). For cold tones I would also recommend Tetenal Dokumol.

In powdered developers my favourite is Ansco 130 (wonderful print colour and tone and it lasts for ages) and Dektol (a nice neutral/cold tone).

If you want to get into home mixed brews you should get a copy of the Darkroom Cookbook by Steve Anchell. It's packed with lots of practical advice.

removed account4 · Jul 12, 2011

thanks for the buetler suggestion jerry --- it sounds like d23 but soda instead of borax ...

the java seems to do me well, i mix 1.5L of it and it lasts more than 4 months
and over a hundred prints & 4x5 sheets ... ( can't complain ) .. it was still going strong
and i got nervous and split it and added another 750cc to some seasoned developer and it lasted another 3+ months.
i haven't noticed any staining when i use it with paper. it takes about 2x the time for the print to complete
and paper negatives like it as well...

the sumatra i am using doesn't taste too bad. it has a nice full body and floral notes
i take a slurp once in a while if i am brewing some for the darkroom
( i roast it cinnamon ( barely ) and because it is old and some beans have
a higher moisture content than the others some beans are a little darker. )

jelke · Jul 12, 2011

ECO 4812

http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/shop/positiv/110/lang:en

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 12, 2011

Roger Cole said:
How do you folks who replenish LPD do this? Do you add a measured amount of fresh solution per print?

From a gallon kit take 1/3 of the liquid and add water to make one gallon. That's your working solution.

For the remaining 2/3 of the concentrate, add water to make one gallon. That's your replenisher.

Add 300ml replenisher per 30 8x10 prints, and top up the working solution to a full gallong at the end of your printing session if needed.

When you start a new batch, take the spent developer to dilute the 1/3 gallon of fresh concentrate to make new working solution.

Ethol will send you the instructions in the mail if you ask for it.

- Thomas

Roger Cole · Jul 12, 2011

Thanks for the information. Interesting, but I don't know how practical that would be for me. If I get to print every week or two I'll be doing good.

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 12, 2011

Roger-

if you only print every couple weeks, then Ansco 130 is the stuff for you- even at working strength, it lasts for weeks at a time, and although it does eventually exhaust, of course, it never seems to. I remember putting something like 30 8x10s and nearly a dozen 16x20s through one gallon of the working strength (1:3) in a single session, coming back three weeks later and printing again and it seemed like it was still developing full tonal range on my prints in the same time (3 minutes). I had one batch going in my Nova slot processor for two months, replenishing as volume was consumed by prints and/or evaporation. Great stuff!

Ian Grant · Jul 13, 2011

Adrian Twiss said:
I have been very satisfied with a) Liquid Dektol (actually Kodak Polymax) and b) Ilford PQ universal (but I would not use it for film). For cold tones I would also recommend Tetenal Dokumol.

D72/Dektol was designed first and foremost to be a film developer for plates sheet films, later it was used for papers as well. For some years it wasn't recommended in the UK for papers where D163 was in use instead.

PQ Universal is an excellent film developer giving good fine grain, sharpness and tonality, ideally it needs dilutiong 1+19 or even 1+29. The disadvantage like D72/Dektol) is because of it's carbonate content it doesn't keep as well and does lose activity, not enough to be a problem with prints but in a more dilute negative developer it may cause issues of under development.

PQ Universal is still recommended for Ilford's Ortho Plus, but Ilford used to publish times for all their films and when I had a commercial darkroom we use it for a lot of negative processing. M&B's (now Champion) equivalent Suprol was widely used at one time for commercail negative processing.

Ian

removed account4 · Jul 13, 2011

hi roger

scott is on the money with the ansco 130
i am using stock that i mixed over a year ago
and it is still great ...

some say it lasts for about 30 days in an open tray dilute/working strength ...

have fun!
john

Hal Reiser · Jul 13, 2011

I used LPD for years but wanting to change to a developer with a better environmental foot print I switched over to Eco-Pro's ascorbate based paper developer.

The results I get with MGWT are outstanding. I am amazed by the wide range of tones in the prints. The developer life is phenominal as the quart of stock solution has lasted over 8 months in its partially filled original container.

To make a working solution the stock is diluted 1:9 which makes it very economical and is very similar to the results I obtained with LPD. It works well with either warm or cold tone papers and can be diluted to 1:14 for warmer or colder tones.

Roger Cole · Jul 13, 2011

I bought some 130 years ago from the Formulary but oddly enough didn't get around to mixing it up. I wonder if the powder is still good? We're talking 1998 here.

Be that as it may, the limitation to me always seemed the price. It may last forever, but it sure is expensive, at least when bought from the Formulary. Probably mixed yourself (but don't you have to get glycin from the Formulary too?) it's less so, but that's a hassle I don't need.

We are talking the one that PF sells as F130, correct? This one:

http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-127/Swan-Valley/Detail.bok

LPD has been readily available, much cheaper, and lasted long enough but I might try 130.

Years ago a friend used a developer called Printofine later renamed Posifine, made by the Acufine/Diafine people. I tried it and didn't care for it - a bit warm and low contrast for my taste IIRC, but it did last even longer than LPD. I don't think it's available any longer though.

removed account4 · Jul 13, 2011

roger,
that's the stuff !
its expensive but some say worth every penny ..
( i have used it to process film for the past 10? years )
the formulary is the only place left to make glycin,
so you might have to get some more before you mix it up ..
(the glycin might be bad if you didn't freeze it, and its not white and fluffy ... )

- john

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 13, 2011

I think 130 is expensive the way Pyrocat is expensive - it only seems like it until you realize exactly how many prints you get out of a batch. A set of Pyrocat HD 500ml bottles is about $20 from Bostick & Sullivan, which sounds expensive compared to say D-76, but don't forget that you use it at extremely small dilutions - 1:1:100 is my normal mix. With 130, you mix a quart of working stock, dilute it 1:3 which makes a gallon, and as I said before, you can get several dozen 8x10 prints and a bunch of 16x20s out of a single mix, and it won't go bad on you no matter how slow you are in using it. The stuff can oxidize until it is black as tar, but it will still work. Think about how many batches of Dektol you'd have to mix in order to make the same number of prints in the same period of time. You'd have to make 3-4 times as much Dektol, at which point the money would be a net wash, and you'd still have to tone your prints to get rid of the Dektol green tone from the bromides.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 13, 2011

One more little horn toot for LPD. You talk about economy.

As replenished, you use 300ml of replenisher per 30 8x10 prints. There's a gallon of replenisher with each kit, and 300ml fits about 13 times into a gallon. 13x30 = 390. That's how many prints you get out of a gallon kit of Ethol LPD. For a ten dollar can of powder. Not bad. That's in round number three pennies per print.

And it does last for at least six months. I always use it up before that, so I can't tell if it would last a year or not.

PhotoJim · Jul 14, 2011

Roger: Glycin doesn't keep well as a powder. However, you could get some fresh glycin and use the rest of the ingredients, most likely.

Glycin apparently keeps well when frozen. I tend to just buy 100 grams of it at a time and mix up 9 litres of stock (which uses up 99 grams of it). That gives me a gram worth of waste as you always lose a little in the process.

eddym · Jul 15, 2011

PDH said:
I have grown found of Edwal Ultra Black, with shipping on the pricy side. Last time I was in LA I bought a case from Freestyle. Someone told me that Edwal stopped making most Photo Chem including Utra Black.

Calumet shows it in stock. Since I can no longer obtain Zone VI print developer, I am looking for a substitute. Thought I might try some Ultra Black.

Gerald C Koch · Jul 15, 2011

Roger Cole said:
I bought some 130 years ago from the Formulary

Gee, that's really a long time ago! I love the English language.

yankeesnapper · Jul 16, 2011

No one's using LPD?

LPD:
Do an APUG search and check out this time and tested, general use developer for paper. It keeps forever in its can, and in the tray. I've got 10, one gallon cans on the shelf amongst others.

Bob McCarthy

2F/2F · Jul 17, 2011

yankeesnapper said:
LPD:
Do an APUG search and check out this time and tested, general use developer for paper. It keeps forever in its can, and in the tray. I've got 10, one gallon cans on the shelf amongst others.

Bob McCarthy

Several people have named it in this thread.

ahock · Nov 25, 2012

Gerald C Koch said:
If you are interested in helping the environment you might be interested in using a developer that does not contain hydroquinone. This chemical is particularly toxic to fish should any get past sewage treatment. There are several ascorbate based print developers on the market. If you are interested in mixing your own I would suggest Ryuji Suzuki two formulas DS-14 and DS-15. An advantage of ascorbate print developers is that they produce greater detail than hydroquinone based ones. This is because ascorbate produces less infectous development than does hydroquinone. The difference is quite striking.

I've just tried DS-14 on Ilford MGIV RC paper. I'm using phenidone(0.2g/L) to substitute Dimezone S(0.2g/L). It take about 4 minutes to finish development. It's quite warmth. May be I should reduce KBr concentration to reduce the warm tone effect. I wonder why it takes so long to finish the development. Any suggestion? Thanks.

BradS · Nov 25, 2012

I've always used Dektol or the home brew equivalent, D-72.

Richard Jepsen · Dec 5, 2012

I found Ethol LPD to be a Metol free, easy to use, long lasting, available, economical and tone flexible developer. For example; I stored distilled H2O mixed LPD developer in 1L hard plasic water bottles for 8 months. Last night I used developer from an unopened bottle. The developer performed normally. LPDs tray capacity is higher than Dektol and has a longer shelf life. Dilution has minor effects on image tone which is better than nothing.

Liquid concentrated developers, with the exception of ECO 4812 and Liquidol, have short (2/3 month) shelf life after breaking the seal. I wonder what you give up to get long life from liquid developers? Therefore I use LPD and 130.

I've used 130, PQ, Dektol, ECO 4812, Liquidol, Arista Liquid Developer/Freestyle, Neutral WA, Universal, ECO-Pro, and a few others. Liquidol and ECO 4812 do last a long time. I like 130 but I did get stains (glow) when the tray solution was getting exhausted. Cool temps (below 70) slow down 130's development. 130 is a bit softer than Dektol/Arista, & PQ. 130 is not the best price value.

Roger Cole · Dec 5, 2012

LPD is available as liquid concentrate. Other than being more concentrated (dilute 1+4 for normal tone instead of 1+2) it seems to me exactly the same as that mixed from powder. It's more expensive, but if it's worth it to you, it's worth it to you. It's obvious, though, why the shelf life is bad. You can (with effort, it's tough plastic) squeeze the air out of the bottle and cap, but it will be un-squeezed again by the next day. Once you remove the foil seal from the top, it doesn't seal back even remotely air tight. I suspect (but haven't tried as I went to the powder) that just pouring the concentrate into your own bottles that you can cap air tight would make it last as long as that mixed from powder, maybe longer since it's more concentrated.

The only thing I don't like about LDP powder is that it dissolves reluctantly. I always seem to have a few grains of powder that just won't dissolve no matter how warm or how much I stir and I end up filtering them.

Richard Jepsen · Dec 12, 2012

I notice some floating debris when mixing Dektol and LPD. Perhaps distilled water helps. Mixing at recommended warm temps is recommended. The suspended particles desolve after a day or two.

nworth · Dec 12, 2012

All things considered, Dektol is hard to beat. It's cheap, gives excellent results, last reasonably long, and can be bought (as Dektol) almost anywhere or mixed from scratch (as D-72). That said, there are just too many factors that go into the choice of a print developer to give absolutes. A lot of them are matters of personal choice; some are matters of availability; some of cost; and some have to do with the technical workings of the developer with a particular paper. Dektol works reasonably well with most all papers, sort of like D-76 works well with most all films. But others have advantages, too. Liquidol is a liquid concentrate that has long life, is somewhat colder than Dektol, gives great results, but is a bit costly. There are other liquid concentrates that are not so expensive, but don't last as long and maybe do not give as good of results. If you are dealing with warm toned papers, Dektol is not the answer, and you need to look at specialized warm tone developers, which is often a very fussy choice.

Best all round paper developer

Gerald C Koch

Adrian Twiss

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jelke

Thomas Bertilsson

Roger Cole

TheFlyingCamera

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Ian Grant

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Hal Reiser

Roger Cole

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TheFlyingCamera

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Thomas Bertilsson

PhotoJim

eddym

Gerald C Koch

yankeesnapper

2F/2F

ahock

BradS

Richard Jepsen

Roger Cole

Richard Jepsen

nworth

Best all round paper developer

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