Best 4x5 Daylight developing tank

BradS · Jan 26, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
I like my Nikor stainless tank, which is invertable just like an ordinary stainless steel tank used for rollfilm, but they're only available used and aren't necessarily "cheap". Jobo makes a similar sheet film reel for their system, but it only takes 6 sheets, and the Nikor takes 12 in approximately the same volume of chemistry (1200 ml for the Nikor).

I have one of the Jobo 2500 tanks with the reel and film loader and a Jobo 3006 tank but a few days ago, I happened upon one of these Nikor tanks with the special reel for sheet films up to 4x5. Unfortunately, it was not for sale. If it were, I would have bought it on the spot. It is without a doubt, the coolest LF tank solution I've yet seen. I wish they were still commonly available.

jeroldharter · Jan 26, 2008

Don't forget BTZS tubes. I switched over to the tubes from my Jobo CPP with 3010 drums and have been pleased. Just processed 8 sheets this morning.

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 26, 2008

I once wrote to Hewes to see if they might consider manufacturing a modern version of the Nikor sheet film reel, and they weren't interested, advising that I look into the Jobo reel.

It would be an expensive thing to manufacture in small quantities. There are something like 140 spot welds.

BradS · Jan 26, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
I once wrote to Hewes to see if they might consider manufacturing a modern version of the Nikor sheet film reel, and they weren't interested, advising that I look into the Jobo reel.

It would be an expensive thing to manufacture in small quantities. There are something like 140 spot welds.

Yes. The reel is a veritable marvel manufacturing engineering...I can see where it would be prohibitively expensive to manufacture - especially in the relatively small volumes that the market might support.

k_jupiter · Jan 26, 2008

Mick Fagan said:
David, all Jobo film tanks, can be used for inversion or rotary processing.

I have used my print test drum 2820, for inversion processing of 4x5 film on a 2509 reel. I also use it for rotary processing for the same four sheets of film, but less chemicals. I have tried 6 sheets of film with rotary processing once, during a test, not good, so I stick to 4 sheets at a time and it is perfect. With inversion processing I would certainly try 6 sheets again, I think it would be alright.

Mick.

I have tried this combo but find the 2820 tank just a hair short for the 2509 reel. I get nervous with the top of the reels that close to the top of the tank in inversion processing. I will someday just go to a 2830 tank and be done with it. The process itself works great.

I generally just use tubes inside a Patterson System tank. That works great except for the anti-halation backing not being completely washed away.

Maybe I should go get some nylon screen and make tubes from that.

Larger sheet films get done rotary in a Uni print tank.

tim in san jose

Mick Fagan · Jan 27, 2008

Tim, I take your point regarding the film reel almost sticking out of the 2820 drum.

I myself was also worried about this so I tested and found that as long as I filled the tank to the brim, then measured the amount in the drum, then added (I think) 50ml, things worked beautifully.

By the way the 2820 test print drum, and the 2521/2523 4x5 film drum(s) are one and the same drum. The only difference is the sticker on the outside, and in the case of the film drums, the 2521 comes with a magnet attached and the 2523 comes with a cog lid.

Mick.

BobNewYork · Jan 27, 2008

I also noticed that the tank seems too short for the reel, but I've been using them for developing for years now - and I use them manually, i.e. inversion agitation. I use 1,500 ml of chemistry per run and I can honestly say I've never had a problem.

Mick Fagan · Jan 27, 2008

Bob, do you process a maximum of 4 or 6 sheets, with inversion?

Mick.

BobNewYork · Jan 27, 2008

I process 6 Mick. With 1.5l of solution there's plenty of chemicals in there. The surface area of six 4x5 is the equivalent of just 1 1/2 35mm 36 exposures. Never had a problem with uneven development. Of course that may just be luck - and I just jinxed myself!!

Bob

Nick Zentena · Jan 27, 2008

Mick Fagan said:
By the way the 2820 test print drum, and the 2521/2523 4x5 film drum(s) are one and the same drum. The only difference is the sticker on the outside, and in the case of the film drums, the 2521 comes with a magnet attached and the 2523 comes with a cog lid.

Mick.

The film tanks come with funnels in the lids and centre columns. I don't remember if the test print tank has ridges on the inside like the other print drums.

The cup on the inside of a print lid would cause problems in a couple of ways. Loading chemicals. Hitting the top of a reel in a full tank.

jeroldharter · Jan 27, 2008

I used to use the Jobo CPP with 3010 reels until the past 6 months. The system is great and relatively easy. However, It takes up a massive amount of space. I have 3 3010 drums which is great for doing up to 30 sheets of film but you have to use the same development time for every sheet in the run of 10. Also, the machine is relatively loud in a small darkroom. Afterwards, you have to dry and drain everything (or else it will look like some of the junky units available on Ebay).

Now I use the BTZS tubes. Although there are alot of little pieces, the system is a little easier to manage. The great thing is that you can adjust the development of each sheet while you are processing a batch of up to six. Also, if you do the testing you can have very fine control of exposure and development of film.

I use the tubes and molded tray for development. When the tube is done with development, I remove the screw top and place the tube in an 11 x 14 tray of stop bath and roll it around while the other tubes with longer development times finish. After all of the tubes are in the stop bath, I remove each sheet from the tube and place it in a 6-compartment slosher in an 11x14 tray of fixer. I turn the room lights on to finish fixing and then move the slosher to a tray of PermaWash which removes the antihalation layer from the TMAX almost completely. Any residual pink comes out in the wash.

Also, I rigged up a water bath from a plastic tub with lid from Walmart, an aquarium heater, and an aquarium pump (just to keep the water circulating) and I place the BTZS tray into a hole in the plastic lid I cut with a dremel tool. That way, I can set up in the evening and everything is ready when I wake up in the morning. In a way, this is an in-elegant Jobo but it is quieter, more versatile, much cheaper ($150 vs $2500) and I don't worry about it breaking some day. I still keep the Jobo for roll film which I use occasionally.

Mick Fagan · Jan 27, 2008

Nick, yes I should be a bit more clear. The print tanks and the film developing tanks come with different (inside the lids) stuff.

The film tanks come with a funnel and sometimes a centre core, not always. The print tanks come with a cup, and sometimes clips, for additional help in securing paper of different format sizes into the tank.

The cup and/or the funnel, are interchangeable. I do it all of the time.

I bought a 1510 film tank, plus a 1520 film tank and a 1530 film extender to go on either of those two base tanks.

The 1530 extender, comes with a core extender, to hold 3 reels. By fitting the 1510/1530 I do 4 x 35/120 films and use 500 ml solution. I fit the 1520/1530 and I can do 5 x 35 films in 600 ml solution. This by the way is why Ilford sell their film developers as a 600ml kit in Germany, I think! Also why 20 years ago you could buy 600ml E6 and C41 kits in Germany.

I can fit the 1520/1530 together and do an 8x10 paper or combinations of 4x5/5x7 paper.

I also purchased the 2840 print tank. By using the bottom section, which is the 2820 test print tank, I can develop one reel of 4x5 film. I have to attach the funnel from the 1510/1520 tanks as well as use the centre core from the 1520 tank.

I have had these tanks/drums for just over 20 years now, great system and very interchangeable.

To give people an idea of just how big Jobo was, I asked my favourite photo dealer, about 12 years ago, just how many Jobo rotary processors they were selling. Now this was a smallish shop in Waiblingen, about 15 Klms north of Stuttgart, not a major retailer by any margin. His reply staggered me. He reckoned that he would have sold about 300 CPE2 units, 50 or so CPA2 units and 3 autolabs.

If you translate that to the greater Germany, one can assume a staggering amount of Jobo gear being sold. Then there is, the rest of the world market!

This is one company that can truly say, they changed the world of photography. I'm reminded of Spiratone and their gadgets, which were excellent and ground breaking as well.

Mick.

BobNewYork · Jan 28, 2008

Yes they were great. In the U.S. they had a fairly famous senior researcher. (So famous, of course, that I can't recall his name. This Alzheimers is driving me nuts!!) If you had a tech problem and the other customer service people couldn't help he'd get on the phone. I called one time and he was in the darkroom - he still picked me up and had a half hour discussion. Great shame.

Shangheye · Jan 29, 2008

Thankyou all. I have not finalised my decsion yet, but maybe cheap is not necessarily best here. The idea of three combi tanks in the dark for dip and dunk sounds attractive since I have a room easily converted to dark room. I appreciate all the great advice. When I make my final decsion I will post it here for the record. Once again I know why I love this site...the people on this post are the evidence. Rgds, Kal

rippo · Jan 29, 2008

Hey Nikkorray:

how do you develop in the Fr tank? film, developer, method etc? I've got two of these tanks, and most of my experiments have ended up in over-developed areas near the edges of the film. My one success was with a two-bath developer, but I haven't tried to replicate the results yet (preferring to develop with what I know will work: the 'taco' method in a daylight tank). i'd love to hear how you manage to successfully use these tanks.

(sending this as a PM too...)

Nikkorray said:
I have the FR tank but I'm not sure if they still make it. I bought it off a photo fair show in Denver. Here's a link to it:

FP 4x5 Developing Tank.

Even though it has a bigger spout opening than the Combi, I still fill/pour the chemicals in the dark & put the top on afterwards so I can turn on the lights. What's nice about it is that you can develop 12 4x5 negs at a time. Just make sure that you fill it up completely. Once in a while I forget to put enough chemicals in there & the top portion of my negs don't get developed.

jasonjoo · May 23, 2008

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I was wondering if there was a solution for developing 4x5 sheet film in smaller quantities (1 to 3 sheets at a time). I'm planning on purchasing a LF camera, but I'm almost positive I won't be developing more than 3 sheets at a time, so I cannot justify the $300 dollar price tag on the JOBO system.

Is there any other tanks to develop a lesser amount of film?

Thanks,

Jason

k_jupiter · May 23, 2008

Read the whole thread. Lots of idears.

tim in san jose

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · May 23, 2008

Nikkorray said:
I have the FR tank but I'm not sure if they still make it. I bought it off a photo fair show in Denver. Here's a link to it:

FP 4x5 Developing Tank.

Even though it has a bigger spout opening than the Combi, I still fill/pour the chemicals in the dark & put the top on afterwards so I can turn on the lights. What's nice about it is that you can develop 12 4x5 negs at a time. Just make sure that you fill it up completely. Once in a while I forget to put enough chemicals in there & the top portion of my negs don't get developed.

I actually picked up one of these at a photography market in Adelaide last week, I'm gonna give it a whirl come wednesday. Looks better than my Yankee Agitank.

Akki14 · May 23, 2008

I'm a weirdo and i just stick the lighttrap spindle/tube in my paterson tank and gently curve 1-2 sheets of 4x5 film into the tank, then pop the lid on. I've just started doing 2 sheets and it's fine and they've not overlapped and ruined everything yet. I use inversions for agitation. The 4inch width of the film has to be vertical, with the 5inch edge curved and running horizontal (does that make sense? it makes more sense if you practice in the light with a piece of 4x5 film). It takes about 800ml of solution to cover the film (but feel free to measure to the top of your own tank with water then pour into measuring jug, just so you know how much to pour in).

John Kasaian · May 23, 2008

A Unicolor processor with print drum is a nice alternative!

2F/2F · May 23, 2008

I use a Jobo 3010 Expert drum on the manual roller base. This $250 setup (tank used, roller new) has saved me and my friends thousands upon thousands of dollars on C-41 and E-6 sheet film processing in fewer than six months. Expensive at first, but paid for itself after about 100 sheets, not to mention the gas driving to the lab once to drop off and again to pick up.

It is also very clean and easy. It is not that much different than processing 35mm as far as the pouring of the chemicals and the amounts you use. In fact, you use a lot less chemistry than 35mm. Not only is is economically effective as far as processing fees, but it also uses only 210-350 mL of chemical to process 10 sheets. I always do it with 250mL because I try to stretch the chemistry. My results are fine, though most of my friends who use the tank will use the max capacity of 350 mL. Developers must be one shot, however, due to all the sloshing leading to lots of oxidation. The chemical usage is a huge advantage over daylight tanks, which use a lot of chemistry.

Additionally, the film is the most beautifully and evenly home-developed film I have ever seen. The actual machine must make it even better. Some day soon, hopefully...

There is a very cheap Unicolor roller base that comes close to simulating the Jobo processor's agitation, including the reverse in direction, but without the automation and electronically-controlled water bath. You can get them used on EBay for under $50 usually. This is my next step. Then the CPP or CPA one day.

Konical · May 23, 2008

Good Morning, Jason,

As Tim says above, "Read the whole thread." In addition, use Search. The topic has been addressed in exhaustive detail in other threads.

Konical

Martin Aislabie · May 25, 2008

I use Combiplan tanks
I have a line of 4 of them pre-filled with chemicals which I drop the cassette into
If the lid is put on PROPERLY - it doesn't leak - but it is a fine art
My biggest bug with the Combiplan tanks is the retaing clip - its too easy to push down on the film and distort the sheets of film so that they touch each other.
I now do a careful feel of the sheets to make sure they are not touching before I start
Martin

df cardwell · May 25, 2008

I don't have a darkroom in my cabin,
but it gets dark enough -usually- to load film without a changing bag.

I use 2 Combi tanks, 1 for Rodinal and 1 for TF4,
filled with solution in advance.

They sit in a plastic dish tray which serves as
a tempered water bath.

A plastic 5 gallon bucket is my washing system,
rainwater for washing.

Combi clips: don't press them down more than a click or two.

ChuckP · May 25, 2008

Try searching for "taco method" for ways to use a roll film tank. I've never done it but works for others.

Best 4x5 Daylight developing tank

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