Best 4x5 Daylight developing tank

Shangheye · Jan 25, 2008

I'm going slowly mad trying to understand what the best system is for this. The main concern seems to revolve around how long it takes to fill and empty these tanks. The HP combi was looking good, until I read a review that suggested the design would result in upt0 1 minute extra developing to the bottom half of the negatives (due to time to fill/empty). Does anybody have any experience of this? I want a "cheap" effective system that does not involve tray development at this stage (I have limited space). I am also interested as to whether people who use day tanks invert/roll etc....

Thankyou for any help you can give!

Rgds

Kal

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 25, 2008

I like my Nikor stainless tank, which is invertable just like an ordinary stainless steel tank used for rollfilm, but they're only available used and aren't necessarily "cheap". Jobo makes a similar sheet film reel for their system, but it only takes 6 sheets, and the Nikor takes 12 in approximately the same volume of chemistry (1200 ml for the Nikor).

Chuck_P · Jan 25, 2008

I bought three combi's when I started in LF---I tried the "dip-n-dunk" method using the combi-plan tank but I got pretty uneven negative densities. I now use the combi-plan as a daylight system with no problems.

I don't fill and empty the tanks because it does take so long. Instead, I load one tank in the dark then put the lid on and set it in the water bath along with the other two tanks, one with the stop bath and one with the fixer.

I agitate with inversion in the light. I turn out the lights one minute before the developing time ends (to give your eyes time to adjust to the dark), remove the lid carefully, then transfer the films to the stop, then transer to the fixer tank, put the lid for the fixer tank on, turn the lights back on, agitate normally.

This works for me quite nicely and I don't have to be concerned with the long filling and draining times.

Uhner · Jan 25, 2008

I use a combiplan tank. Since it takes forever to fill and empty this thing I have resorted to semi-stand and stand development. These techniques work very well, in my opinion, and the bottom parts of my negatives show no discernible difference in density compared to the upper parts.

But – I would stay clear of slow filling and slow dumping tanks. edit - or use Chuck1's system.

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 25, 2008

The Nikor tank is still a big tank, so if I'm using pyro or a developer with a short development time, I'll fill the tank in the dark with the lid off or fill the tank and immerse the reel, and then proceed normally with the lid on. As long as the beginning of the development stage all happens at the same time, I haven't had uneven development issues.

Laurent · Jan 25, 2008

I like the HPCombi. I'm able to fill it in 30 seconds. I just have to make sure the vent is open (unscrew the top screw-on cap a bit), and be concentrated when filling so that the funnel is always as full as possible (to make sure I fill in the less possible time)

My standard development time is about 10 minutes, starting when the tank is full.
I start emptying it 30 seconds before the time is over, and haven't have uneven development (yet ?).

The 3 pics in my gallery where developed for 9'30" using this method, and are straight scans of the negative.

Barry S · Jan 25, 2008

I considered the Combiplan, but they seem finicky and there are no shortage of stories about people that dislike them. I appreciate the fact that they work well for some people, but on multiple recommendations, I bought a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum. I use my 3010 on an inexpensive old Chromega motorized base and it's very easy to use and almost idiot-proof. Loading the drum is very simple and the 3010 has exactly two pieces--the drum and the lid--that's it. The only mystery is the high cost of a simple plastic drum, but they're available used in the $125-175 range. A little more expensive than the Combiplan, but I see it as simpler, more hands-off and potentially more consistent because the agitation never varies.

Mark Fisher · Jan 25, 2008

BTZS tubes .... a little more finicky to set up, but you can vary the development for each sheet of film and it takes very little developer. The expert drum is probably a better way to go if you shoot a lot of film. I might shoot 10 sheets at a time. If I shoot, say, n, n+1 and n-1 then I need to set up the combiplan I used to use at least 3 times. With the tubes I can do it in two (six tubes).

bwakel · Jan 25, 2008

I haven't seen any uneven development with the Combiplan despite the time it takes to fill and empty. As mentioned previously, make sure the top cap's unscrewed when emptying and start emptying about 20 seconds before development's due to complete. Maybe it hasn't been an issue for me because I use Ilford Delta 100 in DDX which is a long dev time so variances of 30 seconds aren't going to make huge amounts of difference.

There are problems with the Combiplan:

It leaks every time you invert it so wear gloves

You have to be careful to fit the film holder clip when it's fully loaded with six sheets or you can push sheets into one another or the outer sheet can be left loose which results in partially developed film

These issues are relatively easy to overcome and although it always feels like a pretty cheap and clumsy solution it works fine and is about the cheapest option for sheet film.

The images taken with my Toyo 45A and posted to the gallery were all developed using the Combiplan.

Barry

Trevor Crone · Jan 25, 2008

I use Combi Plan's like Chuck1 but I use just 2 tanks. Negs very evenly developed.

BobNewYork · Jan 25, 2008

I've used the Jobo 2523 and 2553 tanks successfully for some time now. I prefer the results I get from the intermittent agitation by inversion. Admittedly the 2523 holds only 6 sheets per run but my negs give me what I want. The 2553 will hold 3 reels or 12 films but inverting a tank of this size with 3 liters of chemistry is a severe upper body workout!

I use a funnel to introduce the chemistry into the tank and start my timer after the tank is capped. I pour out the developer at the end of the time and immediately fill with water, (no draining time) I then do 6 changes of water, shake that out before I pour in the fixer. I've had no problems with uneven development to date. The concern with fill and drain times is, of course, uneven development. My experience is that as long as the developer goes in in a reasonable time it's not a problem. Also, I agitate for the first full minute then four inversions each minute thereafter. I also use diluted developer (Xtol 1+1 or 1+3 and Rodinal 1:100) which may also minimize the chances of uneven development.

Ian Grant · Jan 25, 2008

For the past 30 years I've been using Jobo 2000 series tanks, each reel takes 6 sheets of film, 2 reels per tank. Great, very easy to use, never had any problems.

Ian

nicolai · Jan 25, 2008

After pulling my hair out with a Combi, I also switched to the Jobo 2000 series and have been a very happy camper since. The good part is that it's very expandable, you can pretty much add extender tubes and extra 6-sheet reels to your heart's content if you end up doing high volume.

fschifano · Jan 25, 2008

I use a CombiPlan and it works out ok for me. With development times around 10 minutes, I've never had a problem with uneven development. Like the other posters wrote, make sure to open the vent by unscrewing the top fill valve a bit. DO NOT remove it completely since that will make it NOT light proof. Draining from the bottom with the vent open proceeds quickly as well.

Nick Zentena · Jan 25, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
Jobo makes a similar sheet film reel for their system, but it only takes 6 sheets, and the Nikor takes 12 in approximately the same volume of chemistry (1200 ml for the Nikor).

Assuming you mean the 25xx type tanks thats incorrect.
The 25xx type tanks can be configured with one reel or I guess 4 reels if a person could figure out how to spin the tank. But 3 reels are doable. That's only 1litre of chemicals for 18 sheets when rotated.

Nikkorray · Jan 25, 2008

I have the FR tank but I'm not sure if they still make it. I bought it off a photo fair show in Denver. Here's a link to it:

FP 4x5 Developing Tank.

Even though it has a bigger spout opening than the Combi, I still fill/pour the chemicals in the dark & put the top on afterwards so I can turn on the lights. What's nice about it is that you can develop 12 4x5 negs at a time. Just make sure that you fill it up completely. Once in a while I forget to put enough chemicals in there & the top portion of my negs don't get developed.

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 25, 2008

Nick Zentena said:
Assuming you mean the 25xx type tanks thats incorrect.
The 25xx type tanks can be configured with one reel or I guess 4 reels if a person could figure out how to spin the tank. But 3 reels are doable. That's only 1litre of chemicals for 18 sheets when rotated.

Sorry, I was comparing use of the Jobo reel in an inversion tank. I thought it could be used that way, or is that not true?

Nick Zentena · Jan 25, 2008

Not offically. But people do it.

I've got an old Jobo tank that actually mentions inversion but at some point they started pushing the smaller 1500s for inversion and the 2500 only for rotation

Tom Hoskinson · Jan 25, 2008

Another vote for BTZS type tubes. Great flexibility and very uniform development. Developing Tubes are easy to make from ABS plastic plumber's pipe and fittings.

Ian Grant · Jan 25, 2008

There's no reason why the earlier Jobo tanks can't be used with rotaray processors, when I bought my first 2000 new it came with instructions for inversion use, but at the time there were few rotary processors available anyway.

When I bought a second 2000 series tank (from here on APUG last year) the seller indicated he'd always used it on a motorised base.

Ian

gordrob · Jan 26, 2008

I am also a fan of the Nikor tank - it can take up to 12 4x5 sheets as well as it being adjustable to take 2x3 and 3x4 sheets and film packs.
They are pricey but I think well worth the cost.

Gord

P C Headland · Jan 26, 2008

Paterson Orbital is my prefered method. It's like a tray with a lid, so you only need the lights off when loading, which is dead easy. Takes four 4x5, two 5x7 or one 8x10.

It uses very little chemistry - 60ml is all that is required, but I tend to use 100-150ml depending on developer and dilution. Fast fill and fast drain. You can rotate (actually wobble) it manually, or get the motorised base. I get even development and not scratches, not even with Efke 25/100.

They are easier to find in the UK it seems, which is where I had mine sent from. Cost me GBP20 off ebay UK.

Mick Fagan · Jan 26, 2008

David, all Jobo film tanks, can be used for inversion or rotary processing.

I have used my print test drum 2820, for inversion processing of 4x5 film on a 2509 reel. I also use it for rotary processing for the same four sheets of film, but less chemicals. I have tried 6 sheets of film with rotary processing once, during a test, not good, so I stick to 4 sheets at a time and it is perfect. With inversion processing I would certainly try 6 sheets again, I think it would be alright.

There were some very early ones that didn't take to rotary processing, like their daylight tank 2400 as bought.

However that same 2400 tank, was belatedly convertible to rotary processing.

Having actually used one of these 2400 tanks, in daylight, and under pressure, they work marvelously, but it's strictly one roll at a time.

Mick.

buze · Jan 26, 2008

P C Headland said:
Paterson Orbital is my prefered method. It's like a tray with a lid, so you only need the lights off when loading, which is dead easy. Takes four 4x5, two 5x7 or one 8x10.

It uses very little chemistry - 60ml is all that is required, but I tend to use 100-150ml depending on developer and dilution. Fast fill and fast drain. You can rotate (actually wobble) it manually, or get the motorised base. I get even development and not scratches, not even with Efke 25/100.

They are easier to find in the UK it seems, which is where I had mine sent from. Cost me GBP20 off ebay UK.

I second that; it makes 'expensive' developers like DDX very economical too.

If you don't want to wobble the tank and use a reusable developer (I use Barry Thornston's 2 baths) you can use 400ml in the tray, and just 'rock' the tank every minutes or so. Perfect development.
Note that with 8x10 you have to use less solution (200ml max), otherwise the sheet 'floats' and touches the two plastic prod -- creates surge marks.

The Paterson works great for low volume development, but for bigger volume it becomes quite time consuming.

Jordan.K · Jan 26, 2008

Go with the jobo expert drum.............. seriously your negs will be flawless!!!!!!!!!

Best 4x5 Daylight developing tank

Shangheye

David A. Goldfarb

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Chuck_P

Uhner

David A. Goldfarb

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Laurent

Barry S

Mark Fisher

bwakel

Trevor Crone

BobNewYork

Ian Grant

nicolai

fschifano

Nick Zentena

Nikkorray

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Nick Zentena

Tom Hoskinson

Ian Grant

gordrob

P C Headland

Mick Fagan

buze

Jordan.K

Best 4x5 Daylight developing tank

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