Bessaflex TM: Super-Takumar 50/1.4 touches the mirror

[Gimenosaiz]

Hello!!

I have purchased a Silver Bessaflex TM.

Does anybody use one of this with Takumar 50/1.4? It seems that it cannot focus to infinity ... well, to be more precise, it cannot shoot to infinity because the mirror touches the back of the lens.
Any experience?

Thanks a lot.
Cheers!
Antonio

 

[jochen]

Hello,
there are different 1:1,4/50 mm Super-Takumar types. The first had 8 lenses, all later type had 7. Even though all have M 42 thread mount, not all of them can be used with any camera with M42 thread mount. Especially the 8-lenses Type could make problems. The reasons are 1) the protruding rear lens and 2) with some very old M 42 cameras (maybe your Bessaflex) the pin for activating the automatic diaphragm of the lens. Even with the 7 lens Super-Takumars and Super-Multi-Coated Takumars there were dfferences. In the manuals for the Spotmatic and until the ES II and for the lenses there are warnings which lenses cannot be used with specific camera bodies.
All 50 mm lenses for 35 mm SLRs are retrofocus designs and in these early days the designers had problems to calculate high-speed lenses with an adequate distance from the film plane for a given register distance. In fact most had a little more than 50 mm focal length and some had 55 or even 58 mm (Noct Nikkor, Rokkor). By far more difficult was the design of wide angle lenses for SLRs with an automatic flipping mirror.

 

[John Koehrer]

What he said^^^But at the same time I'm surprised that the rear element protrudes that far enough to hit the mirror.
I'll assume that the lens is not going past infinity.

Try it on another body if you can. If the lens was worked on in the past and the helix was assembled wrong that could happen. Actually if the lens was apart and the helical was started one thread off it would be possible to never reach infinity.

 

[Gimenosaiz]

Hello,
there are different 1:1,4/50 mm Super-Takumar types. The first had 8 lenses, all later type had 7. Even though all have M 42 thread mount, not all of them can be used with any camera with M42 thread mount. Especially the 8-lenses Type could make problems. The reasons are 1) the protruding rear lens and 2) with some very old M 42 cameras (maybe your Bessaflex) the pin for activating the automatic diaphragm of the lens. Even with the 7 lens Super-Takumars and Super-Multi-Coated Takumars there were dfferences. In the manuals for the Spotmatic and until the ES II and for the lenses there are warnings which lenses cannot be used with specific camera bodies.
All 50 mm lenses for 35 mm SLRs are retrofocus designs and in these early days the designers had problems to calculate high-speed lenses with an adequate distance from the film plane for a given register distance. In fact most had a little more than 50 mm focal length and some had 55 or even 58 mm (Noct Nikkor, Rokkor). By far more difficult was the design of wide angle lenses for SLRs with an automatic flipping mirror.

Hello!

Thank you for your kind answer.
The Bessaflex is a modern M42 camera. My model (silver) was discontinued March 2007.
But your explanation makes sense ... my Super-Takumar 50/1.4 has thar protruding rear lens.
I just wondered if this problem was a common one of the Bessaflex or it could be one that affected to my unit for any reason ...

Thanks a lot!
Cheers
Antonio

 

[Gimenosaiz]

What he said^^^But at the same time I'm surprised that the rear element protrudes that far enough to hit the mirror.
I'll assume that the lens is not going past infinity.

Try it on another body if you can. If the lens was worked on in the past and the helix was assembled wrong that could happen. Actually if the lens was apart and the helical was started one thread off it would be possible to never reach infinity.

Hi!

yes, this lens (super-takumar 50/1.4) and other (autorevuenon 55/1.4) past infinity.
I tried it on the Spotmatic SP II. I'll do it again but I think everything is perfect with the Pentax ...

thank you!

Cheers!

 

[Hatchetman]

Doesn't work on my Canon EOS3 either.

 

[AgX]

All 50 mm lenses for 35 mm SLRs are retrofocus designs and in these early days the designers had problems to calculate high-speed lenses with an adequate distance from the film plane for a given register distance. In fact most had a little more than 50 mm focal length and some had 55 or even 58 mm (Noct Nikkor, Rokkor). By far more difficult was the design of wide angle lenses for SLRs with an automatic flipping mirror.

No 50mm lens designed for 35mm SLRs is of the retrofocus type. The typical type at least for the fast models is a the double-Gauss type.


To gain maximum yield even with lenses of large FL, mirrors can be elongated at their free end, but then a special swing mechanism has to be employd. Such aspect thus are of impact too concerning maximum lens protrusion.

 

[aoresteen]

The Super Takumar 50mm f/1.4 has always been a problematic lens since it was introduced in 1964 due to the rear element protruding into the camera body. From the Pentax Spotmatic manual:

"Do not use the new Super-Takumar 50mm f 1.4 lens with any other camera or any other Honeywell Pentax model except with models H3v and H1a, having orange-colored "R" marking on the film rewind knob, or you will damage the rear element of the lens"

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/pentax/pentax_spotmatic/pentax_spotmatic-2.htm

The problem only affects the early version of the Super Takumar 50/1.4 with early Pentax cameras, while its late version and the Super Multicoated 50mm f/1.4 are safe with Pentax early cameras. All versions of the Spotmatic (SP, SL, SPII, 1000, 500, F, ES, ESII) are safe with any Takumar 50/1.4 (either ST or SMCT). The problem only affects the older Super Takumar 50/1.4 and the Pentax S1a/H1a and the Pentax SV/H3v.

That is for PENTAX brand cameras.

For non-Pentax m42 cameras, any Super or Super Multi Coated Takumar 50mm f/1.4 can cause damage! Back in the 70's most camera stores that sold Pentax had lists of other M42 cameras the Pentax 50mm F/1.4 was safe with. You can put tape on the back of the lens to prevent the lens from protruding too deeply into the Bessaflex so it doesn't hit the mirror but infinity focus will be off. You'll have to stop down to get infinity elements sharp.

 

[Fixcinater]

The M42 Biotar 58/2.0 also protrudes into the mirror box enough to stop the mirror on some cameras.

Probably nothing wrong with your camera. It is a fairly well known problem on M42 bodies with certain lenses.

 

[Gimenosaiz]

The M42 Biotar 58/2.0 also protrudes into the mirror box enough to stop the mirror on some cameras.

Probably nothing wrong with your camera. It is a fairly well known problem on M42 bodies with certain lenses.

Thank you for your answer!
Cheers

Estoy en el móvil

 

[Gimenosaiz]

The Super Takumar 50mm f/1.4 has always been a problematic lens since it was introduced in 1964 due to the rear element protruding into the camera body. From the Pentax Spotmatic manual:

"Do not use the new Super-Takumar 50mm f 1.4 lens with any other camera or any other Honeywell Pentax model except with models H3v and H1a, having orange-colored "R" marking on the film rewind knob, or you will damage the rear element of the lens"

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/pentax/pentax_spotmatic/pentax_spotmatic-2.htm

The problem only affects the early version of the Super Takumar 50/1.4 with early Pentax cameras, while its late version and the Super Multicoated 50mm f/1.4 are safe with Pentax early cameras. All versions of the Spotmatic (SP, SL, SPII, 1000, 500, F, ES, ESII) are safe with any Takumar 50/1.4 (either ST or SMCT). The problem only affects the older Super Takumar 50/1.4 and the Pentax S1a/H1a and the Pentax SV/H3v.

That is for PENTAX brand cameras.

For non-Pentax m42 cameras, any Super or Super Multi Coated Takumar 50mm f/1.4 can cause damage! Back in the 70's most camera stores that sold Pentax had lists of other M42 cameras the Pentax 50mm F/1.4 was safe with. You can put tape on the back of the lens to prevent the lens from protruding too deeply into the Bessaflex so it doesn't hit the mirror but infinity focus will be off. You'll have to stop down to get infinity elements sharp.

Wow, thanks a lot. I have no idea of this.
Wonderful forum!!
Un abrazo

Estoy en el móvil

 

[Gimenosaiz]

What he said^^^But at the same time I'm surprised that the rear element protrudes that far enough to hit the mirror.
I'll assume that the lens is not going past infinity.

Try it on another body if you can. If the lens was worked on in the past and the helix was assembled wrong that could happen. Actually if the lens was apart and the helical was started one thread off it would be possible to never reach infinity.

Hi. No problem with the Spotmatic SP II.
Thank you!
Regards

Estoy en el móvil