Bessa R3a or Bessa R2a?

[Frank Petronio]

That 24L must be a wonderful lens, inspite of the missing hyperfocal information.

I was prepared not to like AF when I got into my first Nikon D70. Now that I've learned how to use it properly, I love it and feel that it is more accurate than I was with a manual focus SLR in almost every situation. But there is a learning curve. Whether Nikon's AF is better than Canon's is moot, they are both good mature systems. Avoid the early generations of AF cameras though.

The Hexar AF has a really fine AF system - very fast and dead on - and I really can't find any complaints about it.

 

[gareth harper]

That 24L must be a wonderful lens, inspite of the missing hyperfocal information.

I was prepared not to like AF when I got into my first Nikon D70. Now that I've learned how to use it properly, I love it and feel that it is more accurate than I was with a manual focus SLR in almost every situation. But there is a learning curve. Whether Nikon's AF is better than Canon's is moot, they are both good mature systems. Avoid the early generations of AF cameras though.

The Hexar AF has a really fine AF system - very fast and dead on - and I really can't find any complaints about it.

The 24L is good, in that's it's better than the not very good EF24mmf2.8
I bought a secondhand EF24f2.8 a good wee while ago. It took me a while to warm to 24mm, and part of that was down to the softness of the 24mmf2.8, I kept wondering whether I really did have the focus spot on or not. I even took it to a Canon repair centre to get it checked, they found no problems. So I came to the conclusion that the EF24mmf2.8 was a soft lens, either that or I was asking too much of such a wide lens. Anyway I was falling in love with shooting the 24mm. If you can get really close to stuff it's such a fun lens, and you can fire away like mad without having to check your focus all the time.
So when I took a trip to New York last September I bagged a EF24mmf1.4L, camera gear is much much cheaper in the states than in the UK. I also bought a EF35mmf2 while I was there.

So what of the 24L. Well it's big. It looks impressive, particulary with the lens hood fitted. But that's not always what I want. I'm usually trying to shoot at f8 - f11 for good DOF and focus free operation, so the f1.4 option is wasted on me, though I guess I know it's there if I want it, and perhaps I should try some crazy low DOF wide angle shots for some fun some time.
I find it distorts much less than the 24f2.8, which I have to say is nice, though there is still edge distortion when you get close to things. It's sharper. The sharpness is acceptable, much better than the lousy f2.8 but it's still not sharp enougth, I can get good sharp results with it, but it hasn't blown me away in that respect.
The hyperfocal markings are too small and not detailed enougth, but I've found they are usually workable.

Is it a good lens? Yes. Is it a great lens? No. Is it value for money? No way, but I was desparate for something better than the EF24f2.8 It's the most expensive lens I've ever bought.

That's what got me thinking about rangefinders. I'm a sharpness junkie. I'm still looking for a sharper 24mm, a rangefinder with a 24mm might be the answer. I aslo like the non-threatening, if you like, look of rangefinders.

The cheapie EF35mmf2 is a little gem, even if it does have an annoyingly noisey focus motor (by 35mm I'm back to using auto-focus).

Hexar AF?

 

[Biogon Bill]

That Zeiss looks lovely, wonder what the price will be though.

Thanks for all that, you've cleared up a few rangefinders points that were puzzling me. Cheers.

Gareth, the Zeiss Ikon lists at B&H for $1619, but it is available for only 780 GBP ($1425 USD) at Robert White in London.

If you like autofocus but want to be able to take advantage of the benefits of rangefinder lenses, look at the Contax G2. Pricies are low now.

Bill

 

[gareth harper]

Gareth, the Zeiss Ikon lists at B&H for $1619, but it is available for only 780 GBP ($1425 USD) at Robert White in London.

If you like autofocus but want to be able to take advantage of the benefits of rangefinder lenses, look at the Contax G2. Pricies are low now.

Bill

Bill, yes I have noticed that prices of Contax G1's and 2's are very keen these days. And I understand the optics are excellant. Do you know if the wider lenses have good hyper-focal markings? Or are they pure auto-focus cameras. I think at some point I really need to get my hands on some of these cameras. Next time I'm up North (in Scotland) I'll maybe pop into Ffords, they seem to have a good selction of rangefinders, in fact they seem to have every type of camera you could ever desire.

Only 780? Only? Well I suppose if it's good it's a steal compared to Leica!

Anyway I'll try and get my borrowed Canonet working and have some fun with it.

Oh aye the one I really desire is the Bronica RF645. Lenses are limited and slow, but what a lovely camera! I have been very tempted by Robert White's clearance price on them. I'm amazed he is still advertising them at that price.

 

[Frank Petronio]

I am frustrated by the lack of good compact and fast primes for AF DSLRs too, and spending $1500 for a 24/1.4 isn't really practical for me. What bugs me is that both Nikon and Canon (and Olympus) all made excellent, moderately priced, fast and compact f/2 primes in manual focus, so the lens designs are all worked out - but instead we are forced to choose between plastic crap lens, an expensive and bulky zoom, or totally over the top giant L lenses... Neither of which I want.

 

[jd callow]

Not to sound like a jerk, but Why bother with AF on a 24mm? I can see the guys at Nikon or Canon saying "well, if they are silly enough to want AF in a wide angle I'll bet they'll be silly enough to pay... say 1500?"

 

[Frank Petronio]

The honest answer is with a Nikon D70 you really can't manually focus with the crappy viewfinder. I haven't used a full-frame digital or a D2X, but I imagine they are easier (more like a real camera) but you pay big bucks. I do like the D70 for what it is, but I don't fancy putting a $1500 28/1.4 (that is what Nikon makes) on a $800 body. I think a $800 body and a couple of inexpensive ($2-400) lenses makes more sense.

That's why I still shoot 35mm film too...

 

[gareth harper]

"Not to sound like a jerk, but Why bother with AF on a 24mm? "
Exactly my point.

"I can see the guys at Nikon or Canon saying "well, if they are silly enough to want AF in a wide angle I'll bet they'll be silly enough to pay... say 1500?""

Well I think both Canon and Nikon can make auto-focus for any lens pretty cheaply now. With the Canon L they decided to make it the fastest 24 SLR lens ever. That sadly means it's probably the biggest ever. What bugs me is that on such a wide lens the hyper-focal markings are not more detailed. I have a love/hate affair with this lens. I still have the EF24f2.8, which I'll keep for travelling and taking to this years G8. I'm a bit worried about the potential for camera damage at the G8.

Frank the points you raise about DSLR's is why I have not bought one yet. The small sensor size is a real pain. I'm not that keen on the small viewfinders, but I tend to either focus with the auto-focus or the hyper-focal markings. I find it very hard to focus any auto-focus SLR through the viewfinder, I need the split prism thingy for that.

I don't see the price of the full farme Canon coming down that much in the next year, plus it's a bruiser of an SLR. Not do I see the 20D getting updated for a wee while yet. Though I wonder if the next move for Canon's mid range 'pro-am' model is a slightly bigger sensor.
Unfortunately I need something in the near future to speed up my work flow. I've held off almost as long as I can.

I do like the D70 for what it is, but I don't fancy putting a $1500 28/1.4 (that is what Nikon makes) on a $800 body.

Why not? My 24L sits on an EOS30.

Meanwhile to try and trun this away from D*****L, anybody know what the Contax viewfinder is like?

 

[Frank Petronio]

The Contax G1/G2 viewfinder was the deal killer for me. After looking through a Leica (or a Hexar or a Canonet) the VF is worse than the digital D70... dinky and dark. Otherwise I am sure it is a nice camera with great lenses for the money, but too many knobs and buttons for a dummy like me.

 

[Biogon Bill]

Bill, yes I have noticed that prices of Contax G1's and 2's are very keen these days. And I understand the optics are excellant. Do you know if the wider lenses have good hyper-focal markings? Or are they pure auto-focus cameras.

Gareth, the lenses do not have hyper-focal or any other distance markings. Manual focus is possible, but it is electronic manual focus via a focus wheel on the front of the camera & the only feedback is distance readings in the LCD window on the camera.

The Contax G system can best be described as a non-SLR autofocus system. It is at its best when used as an autofocus camera. It's rangefinder system is probably more similar to the split image rangefinder used on SLRs than to the long baseline rangefinder used on Leicas & other traditional rangefinder cameras. However, it's non-TTL focusing system eliminates the SLR mirror & allows for rangefinder-type lens designs.

Bill

 

[Leon]

Eventually, I opted for the bessa r3a - and got it yesterday from Robert White. Thoughts so far ... it is heads above the R2, it just seems to "feel" better in my hands. The RF was spot on so none of the reported misalignment problems. The 1:1 vf is a bit odd, but I do like it, the 40mm framelines are close to the edge, but that's not a prob, I find framing so far to be not an issue at all (I got the nokton 40mm with it too).

ONly slight difficulties so far ... the shutter speed readings are difficult to see in day light, although not impossible, and the slotted nokton lens shade rattles slightly when attached - again, not an impossible problem. And the shutter release is far too easy to fire when depressing 1/2 way for a meter reading ... something that is overcome with a little care though. The more i get to know this camera, the more I REALLY like it. thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[Biogon Bill]

Congratulations, Leon. Enjoy!

 

[Lee L]

Leon,

Have a blast with the R3A. I really like shooting with the 1:1 finder. Leave both eyes open and the frame will just float in space if you're right-eyed. The electronic shutter release is a bit more hair-triggered than the R2 and earlier Bessas, but you'll get used to it. Can't speak to the rattling lens shade, as my 40mm lenses are older vintage, and two good reasons for getting the R3A in the first place.

Lee

 

[Leon]

Update ... Not Good News

I've found there's a serious problem with the 40mm lens that came with my camera. I get some massive vignetting from wide open and up to f5.6 (click here to see a shot at f5.6)

I've done some test rolls to explore it further and it is pretty bad!

Dead Link Removed

It does not seem to be affected by the lens shade or filter so it must be the lens. I have posted this over at the RF forum and people there have testified that their 40mm Noktons do not vignette noticably at any fstop so mine is a dud. You would have thought this would have been picked up before it left the manufacturer ... it seems it's another in the eye for Mr K and CV's seemingly poor Quality Control set up!

The lens will be goign back to Robert WHite's on Monday for a replacement.