Bessa II

Mewael · Aug 30, 2014

Opinions on this camera? (I'm talking about the classic 120 folder, not the modern Bessa III / GF670).

I'm very interested in this folder but I've read that the front standard sturdiness is not the best.

tony lockerbie · Aug 30, 2014

I have owned two, one wit the Heliar lens and one with the Skopar. Both had the alignment problems that you have heard of and this seems to be fairly endemic.
Of course I may have been unlucky so you may need to test for yourself. The Bessas are handsome cameras with superb lenses, so if you find a good one then it will be an excellent picture taker.
Another problem is the price. They have become quite expensive, especially with the Heliar lens. The Super Ikonta C is a good alternative as they tend to hold their parallelism much better.
Having said that, I currently have a pre-war Bessa RF with an uncoated Heliar, much cheaper than the later model and does much the same thing....and mine is almost parallel!

Brian Legge · Aug 30, 2014

I have a Bessa II w/Heliar. The focus it was off; I need the glass closer to the film gate and that doesn't seem possible. Very unfortunate as the lens seems great when it is in focus. :/

Jon Shiu · Aug 30, 2014

Difficult to see through the viewfinder if you wear glasses.

Jon

gone · Aug 30, 2014

I've never had a folder w/ front standard alignment issues, and the Bessa II (owned two, both w/ the Heliar lens) is one of the sturdiest folders you can find. Excellent build quality. Honestly, I don't know how these myths get started. Next, someone will chime in about how folders don't hold the film flat. Bull. My 6x9 negs were sharp from corner to corner, and the Heliar lens on these cameras is superb. But if it were me, I'd look for a Bessa RF w/ a Heliar lens because you can find them for a fraction of the cost. Their lenses are uncoated (OK, time for the armchair photographers to start chiming in about the necessity of coatings, computer designed lenses, etc), but I saw no difference in IQ from these compared w/ the Bessas w/ coated Heliars. And, if you're lucky, you can find one w/ a 6x4.5 mask. The Bessa II can only do 6x9.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 30, 2014

I had the Bessa II with Heliar and while I loved the lens and the pocketability, the ergonomics just didn't work for me. That shutter release on the door on the left side of the camera was a beautiful mechanism, erecting itself as the door opened, but it was far enough out there that it seemed to cause some camera shake when I held it in the horizontal position. Verticals and tripod shots were fine, but handheld horizontal shots often had some motion blur. The whole idea of a folder for me is for handheld photography, so I sold it at a bit of a profit and settled on my Perkeo II as my folding rollfilm camera of choice.

Pioneer · Aug 30, 2014

I have a Bessa II with the Color Skopar and it works fine. No alignment problems at all. I got it from Jurgen and had it all set it up before it arrived. I also have a nice Record III with a Solinar and I can't tell the difference between the two cameras. My Bessa III/GF670 is quite a bit better, but that is what you would expect from a brand new camera.

EDIT - and I wear glasses and find the Bessa II no harder to work with than a Leica Barnack. Face it, they are old cameras so you need to expect that the viewfinders are not the equivalent of more modern equipment.

Regular Rod · Aug 31, 2014

I have the all black pre-war RF predecessor to the Bessa II. It's just called "Bessa" (not Bessa I or any other number) with a Skopar lens. The front standard has to be pushed into its fully erected position after the camera is unfolded, but once that is done it is as sturdy as a rock. The focus is precise and accurate. I haven't had it long and frankly I like its results so much that I won't be parting with it anytime soon. If you can afford it and it is in good condition then I don't think you will be disappointed by your decision...

RR

analoguey · Aug 31, 2014

Just a month back there seemed to be so many folders including Bessas available cheap, now I see most hovering well over the 100$ mark - and Bessas well over 250 - did something change over the month or so? Gifting season?

Sent from Tap-a-talk

Regular Rod · Aug 31, 2014

analoguey said:
Just a month back there seemed to be so many folders including Bessas available cheap, now I see most hovering well over the 100$ mark - and Bessas well over 250 - did something change over the month or so? Gifting season?

Sent from Tap-a-talk

You have to buy them when you can! They are a finite resource. The current crop of buyers are buying them for keeps so even fewer are now available. You can still get high quality non-RF folders for reasonable prices, but they too are a finite resource..

RR

Bill Burk · Aug 31, 2014

I wish the price of cameras could be ignored... Because I find the 6x9 format so satisfying for the large area of film each shot gets, on convenient roll film, and the Bessa II satisfying ergonomically (easier to focus than Ikonta)... I miss the double-exposure prevention interlock that comes with the Ikonta, but I don't have a lot of double-exposures so it's not that big a deal.

If the camera could be had for under a couple hundred dollars, I'd highly recommend it. But the price is high, I can't believe it's worth it.

Instead, I'd recommend opening the door to any folding 6x9 camera that you can get for less than a couple hundred dollars... Because once you get to 6x9, the film alone provides much of the look.

Regular Rod · Aug 31, 2014

Bill Burk said:
I wish the price of cameras could be ignored... Because I find the 6x9 format so satisfying for the large area of film each shot gets, on convenient roll film, and the Bessa II satisfying ergonomically (easier to focus than Ikonta)... I miss the double-exposure prevention interlock that comes with the Ikonta, but I don't have a lot of double-exposures so it's not that big a deal.

If the camera could be had for under a couple hundred dollars, I'd highly recommend it. But the price is high, I can't believe it's worth it.

Instead, I'd recommend opening the door to any folding 6x9 camera that you can get for less than a couple hundred dollars... Because once you get to 6x9, the film alone provides much of the look.

This is good advice.

RR

BradS · Aug 31, 2014

momus said:
I've never had a folder w/ front standard alignment issues....

I guess that you have never owned a folder that had been dropped when open. They definitely DO get out of alignment and when they are out of alignment, they are definitely very nearly useless.

analoguey · Aug 31, 2014

Regular Rod said:
You have to buy them when you can! They are a finite resource. The current crop of buyers are buying them for keeps so even fewer are now available. You can still get high quality non-RF folders for reasonable prices, but they too are a finite resource..

RR

I hadnt even considered folders, then I saw a near-unused 6x9 Nettar pop up - and I lost the bid by a dollar, at the last second(of course!). While researching that, saw some great images made by them - and the possibility of pocket-carrying them (versus a big bag for my RB) and larger negative made me look for a few more.

I am (now) wondering if there are seasonal changes in the way things are put up on ebay.

*hoping* more come along.

johnnyh · Aug 31, 2014

Brian Legge said:
I have a Bessa II w/Heliar. The focus it was off; I need the glass closer to the film gate and that doesn't seem possible. Very unfortunate as the lens seems great when it is in focus. :/

I should think it could be done, by adjusting the relation between the focus rack and the thumbwheel and the optics. It's a few years since I did it (on my Bessa RF, but I believe the Bessa II is substantially similar) , so memory of the detailed procedure is a bit hazy , but this shows the way in. If it's a lot out, it could be that somebody in the past reassembled it with the rack/pinion a tooth out of the correct position, otherwise you might just need to make adjustments at the top with the cover off.

georg16nik · Sep 1, 2014

The pre-WWII Bessa and post-WWII Bessa II are based on the same concept.
Bessa II is heavier, the RF and viewfinder are combined in one unit, the fold/unfold mechanics are a bit reinforced compared to the pre-WWII Bessa.
The focusing unit is completely adjustable on both Bessas - its a set of rails driven by the focusing knob, a very simple, effective, precise and reliable mechanism.
Sometimes people who dissemble the Bessas do not mark the entry point on the rail, and after reassembly the focus might be off.

Its very simple why the prices of Bessa II, even Bessa RF are the way they are - since before WWII nobody managed to came up with a better 6x9 folder and they way its seems, we might never see a change.

Regular Rod · Sep 1, 2014

georg16nik said:
.....Its very simple why the prices of Bessa II, even Bessa RF are the way they are - since before WWII nobody managed to came up with a better 6x9 folder and they way its seems, we might never see a change.

I couldn't agree more. It's amazing.

RR

Helinophoto · Nov 6, 2014

Regular Rod said:
I have the all black pre-war RF predecessor to the Bessa II. It's just called "Bessa" (not Bessa I or any other number) with a Skopar lens. The front standard has to be pushed into its fully erected position after the camera is unfolded, but once that is done it is as sturdy as a rock. The focus is precise and accurate. I haven't had it long and frankly I like its results so much that I won't be parting with it anytime soon. If you can afford it and it is in good condition then I don't think you will be disappointed by your decision...

RR

Sir, that first shot is AWESOME!
Super photo, regardless of media/equipment,the light on this is perfect.

I just got my Bessa II, with a color Heliar, cost me $1000 from Jurgen Kreckel, I've seen Bessa II Skopar-variants for sale in my own country who were sold for about the same price, so...better to buy it from Jurgen directly, as you know they are serviced and functional.

The cheaper 6*9 option (and IMO a very fun option) is the Moskva-5, I bought one in Prague for $100, also serviced, works very well, although the optics on mine does leave a little to be desired ^^ The Bokeh on my Moskva-5 is almost Petzval-like, swirly and wacky, but not overly much, just enough to show a mild swirl-effect. ^^

I would probably never get a medium format RF for 6*6 or 6*4,5 as my personal point with these RF's, is to shoot in 6*9 (I own several 6*6 cameras).

If I find a pre-war Bessa or an Ikonta or similar, I may buy it as a display-piece if they don't have a coupled rangefinder, the black ones looks really nice.

Anyway, I find these cameras very interesting and charming, functional. Simple, yet very smart design.

georg16nik · Nov 6, 2014

Welcome to the Bessa II club!

elekm · Nov 6, 2014

The criticism of the Voigtlander folding cameras is that the lens/shutter yoke is made of metal that is too thin, and the design of the yoke makes it vulnerable to damage.

I have the all-black prewar Bessa RF with a Helomar triplet. It's a very nice lens, and I expect the Skopar would be better and the Heliar even better. But not $1,000 better.

I like the 6x9 format. I also have a very nice Agfa Record III with a Apotar triplet and several Super Ikontas with Tessars (coated and uncoated).

My favorite Super Ikonta 6x9 is from the 1930s. I think that I paid about $150 for it. It looked old and musty and was old and musty. But after some hours on the service bench, it's turned out to be an excellent camera.

Here's a photo from several years ago. Taken inside a dark-ish barn with Ilford Pan F+. Shutter speed was 1/10, and there is some camera shake. And I missed slightly on the focus.

http://elekm.net/oddpix/Old_horse_Ilford_Pan_F_Super_Ikonta_530-2.jpg

desertrat · Nov 6, 2014

Regular Rod said:
You have to buy them when you can! They are a finite resource. The current crop of buyers are buying them for keeps so even fewer are now available. You can still get high quality non-RF folders for reasonable prices, but they too are a finite resource..

RR

Well, yes and no on the finite resource. They haven't been manufactured for decades, so in that sense they're a finite resource. On the other hand, thanks to estate sales and Ebay, examples turn up regularly. This will continue as a low volume but continuous process. So in a sense, it's like they're still being made in small quantities, except they usually need to be serviced before they can be used.

The prices fluctuate quite a bit, so if you are patient and can follow listings for a year or so, eventually a fairly good deal will turn up.

Helinophoto · Nov 6, 2014

elekm said:
I have the all-black prewar Bessa RF with a Helomar triplet. It's a very nice lens, and I expect the Skopar would be better and the Heliar even better. But not $1,000 better.

Sweet Ikonta, I need to get one, haha dammit!

I agree 100%, though......the price is what it is, a Heliar Bessa II in good working condition and cosmetically nice with a syncro compur shutter to 1/500, is, to put it simple, expensive these days, the price hovers around the $1000 mark.
If the price is lower, the condition is more iffy, or it's the other shutter variant, in addition, you'll have to CLA the camera, so added expenses for shipping and service must be added, and you end up around $1000 anyway.

I bought mine, after considering the Skopar.
But I also though that, since we are in 2014 and these cameras are indeed getting a bit rare and sought after, why not opt for the best of the bunch?
(Lanthar's not considered, as they go for $10 000 or something like that, if you can find one ^^).

I am going to use mine, but when I am not using it, it sits in the display-cupboard, along with other old cameras (moskva-5, Rolleiflex Automat, Yaschicaflex and my Leica CL)
- If I decide to sell it some time in the future, I will get my money back and then some, more than with a Skopar variant and more than the Heliar versions with the slower shutter.

- Not that I plan to, I am not a collector or speculating in older cameras, I buy them to use them

Bessa II

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