Beseler 23Ciii-XL 6x6 negative carrier cropping frames

[bence8810]

Hello,

I have 3 negative carriers with my Beseler 23Ciii-XL enlarger and so far I've only been printing 35mm negatives. The carrier I have for 35mm is the #8055 which seems to be a full frame carrier. This allows me to print with some black borders around the edges as the carrier's opening is larger than the 35mm frame.

I recently tried printing Medium Format with my carrier #8060 and noticed it isn't only not allowing me to print with the black borders but it is actually cropping from all edges of the frame.

Is there a "full frame" carrier for 6x6 or I'll need to get smart and file my carrier out?

Below is a picture of the 3 carriers I have.

Thanks,
Ben

 

[MattKing]

To get "full frame" with 6x6 you probably need a larger glass carrier. There isn't much to grab on to if you are out into the rebate area of a 6x6 negative.

 

[winger]

I had an extra 6x6 carrier and was able to file it out enough by hand to get black lines. The one I filed isn't exactly the same as my 8060 - it looks older and is marked 2424NC. Below that is an S. I have no idea where I got it, but I've had it since soon after getting the enlarger and I think it had a wider opening to begin with which is why I filed it instead of the 8060.

 

[wiltw]

The 6x6 frame is typically 56mm x 56mm. What size, to nearest 0.5mm, is the carrier that you have problems with?

 

[bence8810]

Not sure what size it is, can't find the detail anywhere on google. It is just smaller than the actual frame that is produced by my rolleiflex.
Before this Beseler I was using a Lucky 90M-D enlarger and that had a carrier that perfectly matched the Rollei's frame. This 8060 carrier is smaller than the photo itself and crops it on all 4 sides a little.

I'd like to get the black lines so I was going to file it out anyways but since it was actually smaller than the frame itself I thought I'd ask the gurus here.

I don't have a measuring equipment at home I could use to measure this to the 0.5mm but I'll try a normal ruler to see. Maybe take a photo somehow showing how much is sticking out on each side.

Thanks,
Ben

 

[bence8810]

Hello again,

Here is the photo with some amateur measurement. Looks like the holders opening is 53mm all around.



Here is a negative inserted although you can't see much. The image hangs over the holder by at least a mm on every side.

Is this normal?



Thanks,
Ben

 

[Sirius Glass]

To get "full frame" with 6x6 you probably need a larger glass carrier. There isn't much to grab on to if you are out into the rebate area of a 6x6 negative.

This works the best. If one files out the edges, it is hard to get the edges even and the negative will tend to bend or drop through.

I had an extra 6x6 carrier and was able to file it out enough by hand to get black lines. The one I filed isn't exactly the same as my 8060 - it looks older and is marked 2424NC. Below that is an S. I have no idea where I got it, but I've had it since soon after getting the enlarger and I think it had a wider opening to begin with which is why I filed it instead of the 8060.

I have some filed out negative carriers and as I stated above they are not optimal. Even though the previous owner had them professionally ground out, they are not that even and the print is not that attractive.

 

[Hilo]

It is also good to understand that each camera gives slightly different sized borders. I use a Leitz Focomat 2c to print 6X6. The negative holder is 6X9 with two glasses. The other day I could simply not get any borders with a negative from 1990. This negative was too large and I believe I used a rather cheap Ikonta folder, perhaps a Nettar. A friend told me the older Zeiss cameras give large sized negatives. Like with the Beseler holders there is not much room for any filing in the 2c holder, but it was sufficient to file only one long side, about 1.5 to 2 millimetres.

Over the years I have filed out many holders, in particular for the Focomat 1c (135mm). It is correct you will never be precise. I accept that and file out a little more than needed, and then use the easel to create the border I like. In other words the blades of the easel determine the width and the look of the outside of the borders. The other way is to have an enlarger that projects the negative including the border and, as far as I know, the outside lines of the border will be fuzzy. Some like that, some not.

 

[wiltw]

Hello again,

Here is the photo with some amateur measurement. Looks like the holders opening is 53mm all around.

View attachment 156408

Much appreciation! 52.5mm-53mm opening. Thanks for doing that.

 

[tedr1]

FWIW the Beseler medium format Negatrans carrier does the same frame cropping.

 

[bence8810]

Thanks all for the replies. I guess the only thing one can do is to file the carrier out.

I thought since Beseler offered two sizes for the 135 carrier, they would have done the same for the 6x6 and 6x7's as well.

I'll file them out soon, nothing else to do I guess.

 

[bence8810]

Much appreciation! 52.5mm-53mm opening. Thanks for doing that.

You are very welcome!

Ben