Beseler 23cii-XL prints to dark

Analog_printing011 · Mar 26, 2020

Just got my darkroom setup to get back with analog printing, got Beseler 23cii-XL enlarger in nice condition.
Did my first contact sheets and finally first prints after so many years. But to dark . Went all the way down to f16 and still
not happy. Time is only 5 sec. Have stock bulb in and have no tick glass under condenser (is this a problem).
Don't no where to start. Thanks in advance. Lets do analog again.

logan2z · Mar 26, 2020

The stock bulb in the 23C is pretty bright. I've had similar issues when printing some negatives in my 23C and my solution has been to add a 1 or 2 stop gel type ND filter in the filter drawer. The filter material is dirt cheap, is easy to cut to size and can be found at places like BH Photo.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/44186-REG/3403_Filter_Rosco_N.6_20x24_

Analog_printing011 · Mar 26, 2020

logan2z said:
The stock bulb in the 23C is pretty bright. I've had similar issues when printing some negatives in my 23C and my solution has been to add a 1 or 2 stop gel type ND filter in the filter drawer. The filter material is dirt cheap, is easy to cut to size and can be found at places like BH Photo.

Thanks, will try it, in a meantime can I use multi grade filters under the lens?

logan2z · Mar 26, 2020

Analog_printing011 said:
Thanks, will try it, in a meantime can I use multi grade filters under the lens?

The 23CII XL has a filter drawer above the lens so I'm not sure why you would use under the lens filters. Multigrade filters will work over or under the lens, but they aren't a solution for your short exposure times.

Analog_printing011 · Mar 26, 2020

Got it, thanks

Chris Johnson · Mar 26, 2020

You could also put a dimmer control on the line.

MattKing · Mar 26, 2020

If you are planning to use multigrade filters for some of your prints, it makes sense to use something like a #2 filter as your "standard" contrast rather than using the enlarger without filters as your "standard" contrast - the speed matching facility does make things more convenient.
Always having some filter in place will also give you some help with your short printing times.
You can use either the above negative or below lens filters - both have advantages.

MattKing · Mar 26, 2020

Chris Johnson said:
You could also put a dimmer control on the line.

This is true, but it adds one complexity. The dimmer can change the colour temperature of the light, which in turn can change the contrast.

Analog_printing011 · Mar 26, 2020

MattKing said:
If you are planning to use multigrade filters for some of your prints, it makes sense to use something like a #2 filter as your "standard" contrast rather than using the enlarger without filters as your "standard" contrast - the speed matching facility does make things more convenient.
Always having some filter in place will also give you some help with your short printing times.
You can use either the above negative or below lens filters - both have advantages.

Analog_printing011 · Mar 26, 2020

Thanks

Rick A · Mar 26, 2020

The obvious cure for the problem is to shoot denser negatives. Great prints start with properly exposed negatives.

logan2z · Mar 26, 2020

Rick A said:
The obvious cure for the problem is to shoot denser negatives. Great prints start with properly exposed negatives.

Was going to suggest that too, but didn't want to make an assumption about the density of the OP's negatives.

Brendan Quirk · Mar 26, 2020

I find a standard 52 mm (camera lens) neutral density filter fits nicely in the circular cut out in the swinging filter holder under the lens. This allows you to use the sheet multigrade filters in the above lens drawer. Make sure you center the filter properly, to avoid cutting off the corners of the image.

logan2z · Mar 26, 2020

Brendan Quirk said:
I find a standard 52 mm (camera lens) neutral density filter fits nicely in the circular cut out in the swinging filter holder under the lens. This allows you to use the sheet multigrade filters in the above lens drawer. Make sure you center the filter properly, to avoid cutting off the corners of the image.

That would work. FWIW I use a Resco cinegel ND filter beneath the heat absorbing glass and that still leaves the filter drawer above the lens free for multigrade filters.

Analog_printing011 · Mar 26, 2020

Analog_printing011 said:
Just got my darkroom setup to get back with analog printing, got Beseler 23cii-XL enlarger in nice condition.
Did my first contact sheets and finally first prints after so many years. But to dark . Went all the way down to f16 and still
not happy. Time is only 5 sec. Have stock bulb in and have no tick glass under condenser (is this a problem).
Don't no where to start. Thanks in advance. Lets do analog again.

Just checked my lamp it is not matching one per manual. Manual calls for PH140 75W
and mine is PH140 15W 2900K. Now this is strange...
Also I forgot to mention that I was printing 5x7 size

logan2z · Mar 26, 2020

Analog_printing011 said:
View attachment 242774

Looks like 75W to me.

Analog_printing011 · Mar 26, 2020

logan2z said:
Looks like 75W to me.

LOL it is my bad , I will try with multigrade filter like 2, how important is heat absorbing glass?

logan2z · Mar 26, 2020

Analog_printing011 said:
LOL it is my bad , I will try with multigrade filter like 2, how important is heat absorbing glass?

I use it, I figure it can't hurt. Although I do still experience negative popping with the glass. I just sprung for an anti-Newton glass negative carrier from Beseler to keep the negative flat.

Analog_printing011 · Mar 26, 2020

Good to know, thanks Logan2z

MattKing said:
If you are planning to use multigrade filters for some of your prints, it makes sense to use something like a #2 filter as your "standard" contrast rather than using the enlarger without filters as your "standard" contrast - the speed matching facility does make things more convenient.
Always having some filter in place will also give you some help with your short printing times.
You can use either the above negative or below lens filters - both have advantages.

Ian C · Mar 27, 2020

The heat-absorbing filter should be used with the 23C for two reasons. It is indicated in the Beseler manual as recommended to protect any filter used in the lower filter drawer from heat. Without the filter, heat from the lamp will begin to destroy the dye in the filter, accelerating fading. See: G. Heat-Absorbing Glass on page 4 of the manual for the Beseler 23CII.

http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/enlargers/beseler/Beseler_23C_II.pdf

The heat-absorbing filter removes much of the heat from the lamp, so the negative receives far less heat. This will minimize—but not eliminate negative “popping”. In my 23CII, I have removed the sliding sheet-aluminum filter-holding drawer from the lower slot.

This allows me to use two heat-absorbing filters, one in the upper slot and one in the lower slot. All my filtering is done with the Ilford MG below-the-lens filter kit. This is my preferred contrast control for variable-contrast printing—even when using a dichroic-filtered color enlarger.

Even so, I use a glass negative carrier to ensure negative flatness during projection. It is the only way I know of to ensure uniform image focus, which is most noticeable when making large prints.

Each of these heat-absorbing glass filters (Beseler part 8042) holds back about 1/3 stop of light on its own.

The light intensity can be controlled with a lens-mounted neutral-density filter. Most enlarging lenses used on the Beseler 23C have a front thread of 40.5 mm x 0.5 mm, 43 mm x 0.75 mm. A few other sizes might be seen depending on the lens.

My 50mm f/2.8, 80 mm f/5.6, and 105 mm f/5.6 EL Nikkors use 40.5 mm x 0.5 mm front thread. I use an inexpensive, but well-made 40.5 mm to 52 mm step-up ring that allows me to use my Nikon camera-lens filters on these enlarger lenses when needed.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/809750-REG/Sensei_sur40_552_40_5_52mm_Step_Up_Ring.html

You might already have a practical ND filter in the form of a polarizer. For example, the Hoya polarizer holds back about 5/3 stops for an exposure-time increase of 3.17X. Neutral density filters are commonly available in ND 0.3 (1 stop or 2X), ND 0.6 (2 stops or 4X), ND 0.9 (3 stops of 8X), Stronger ND filters are also available.

mgb74 · Mar 28, 2020

logan2z said:
The 23CII XL has a filter drawer above the lens so I'm not sure why you would use under the lens filters. Multigrade filters will work over or under the lens, but they aren't a solution for your short exposure times.

None of the multigrade filters I've seen will fit this drawer without cutting them down. And the filters you often find that have a border won't fit in that drawer.

mgb74 · Mar 28, 2020

I still think something is off here. It's been a while since I used a 23c (whichever variant) in condenser mode but I don't remember 5x7 prints requiring such short printing times at f8, much less f16. You should not need to modify with ND filters, etc. So here are some possibilities, some of which have been discussed:
Wrong bulb (too high wattage)
Wrong film format setting on the enlarger (though I think would only impact if printing MF negs)
Defective lens (marked f16 isn't really f16; check to see that it really stops down, also some lenses have a separate stop down function)
Improperly installed condensers
Thin negatives
Voltage too high (pretty unlikely, but possible)

Also, check again your print developer and dilution. What developer are you using and are you using it stock or diluted?

logan2z · Mar 28, 2020

mgb74 said:
None of the multigrade filters I've seen will fit this drawer without cutting them down. And the filters you often find that have a border won't fit in that drawer.

That's correct, they need to be trimmed to fit, but that's easily accomplished with a pair of scissors.

mgb74 · Mar 28, 2020

logan2z said:
That's correct, they need to be trimmed to fit, but that's easily accomplished with a pair of scissors.

True, easily trimmed to fit. But I find those hard to keep clean and scratch free unless you take the effort to create a cardboard or plastic mount. I "solved" the problem with a colorhead, but that's not for everyone.

removedacct1 · Mar 28, 2020

Analog_printing011 said:
Just checked my lamp it is not matching one per manual. Manual calls for PH140 75W
and mine is PH140 15W 2900K. Now this is strange...
Also I forgot to mention that I was printing 5x7 size

If you cannot get a correctly exposed contact print at f16, then raise the enlarger head much higher to decrease the light intensity. I always make 8x10 contact prints with the head raised high enough to cast at least an 11x14 inch area of light, preferably larger.

Beseler 23cii-XL prints to dark

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