Beseler 23C II XL - Need help solving one of two problems

far2canadian · Apr 27, 2023

Hey all, I am the proud new owner of a Beseler 23C II XL with a Dual Dichro S head, and a spare dual Dichro head. The enlarger came with 3 lenses and everything I need to get printing. $400. I felt like I got a solid deal.

However.

I got a table built, blacked out my windows, and was proudly showing my wife my new darkroom. And then the bulb on the Dual Dichro S burns out (at that very moment). Fun. OK. No worries, I have the spare Dual Dichro head - turns out they have different bulbs. OK....order bulbs (I ordered three, just in case), it takes 5 days for them to arrive. Patience engaged.

In the meantime, I thought about getting the standard incandescent lamp for the enlarger, in case the dichro head dies completely. As luck would have it, there's one (only one) on eBay, so I grabbed it.

When the new EVW bulbs for the dichro arrived yesterday, I put a fresh bulb in. It all works fine for a few minutes, then that SECOND bulb for the dichro head burns out ( I'm totally disappointed now. I check the voltage coming out of the timer, it's at 120V. I checked the voltage coming out of the contacts for the bulb. It's at about 71.7v.

(http://imgur.com/rjsCKIX)

(http://imgur.com/SQon3BI)

(http://imgur.com/QPFNh8X)

(http://imgur.com/Fv3cFne)
The new bulb is rated 82V and is a GE, real bulb. EVW, as stated in the manual.

(http://imgur.com/rgFWZwa)

(http://imgur.com/yqEyM6F)
The standard incandescent lamp cap was on the way, so I decide to wait again and not throw ANOTHER quartz/halogen bulb into the dichro head.

Incandescent lamp head arrives today! Great! However! It turns out it's for a 23C II ----- not a 23C II XL ----- they have different lamp housing ((

(http://imgur.com/xVY2m7c)
So I'm pretty disappointment at the moment and just want to print!! Here's what I need help with:

I can't find a voltage problem with the dichro head. But I'm not an electrician. Could there be a spike causing the bulbs to burn out and how would I check for that? I did try measuring with my voltmeter as I turned the unit on/off and turning the timer on/off. The voltage never exceeded 71-72V out of the bulb socket, and never more than 120v from the timer outlet.
Is it possible some goon touched the EVW halogen bulb when packing, and that caused the replacement bulb to blow within minutes?? I have 2 more. I cold wipe them down with alcohol and try again.
I could hack / rewire / remount the incandescent lamp head to fit this enlarger and have the bulb pointing vertically down, not horizontally like it does now. That would make the lamp head fit -in any case, I can't find a replacement lamp head specifically for the 23C II XL. Maybe I'll need to make this one work?

-----

Sorry for the long post - what would you do? Any advice / thoughts / experience? Like I said, I'm exercising patience over here, but would love any thoughts on a way forward.

albada · Apr 28, 2023

Welcome to Photrio!

The hack job sounds good, except you must be careful about one thing: For a vertical bulb, the distance between the bottom of the bulb (glass, not threads) and the condenser under it is important. That's because the condenser+lens projects an image of the bottom of the bulb onto the easel. The bulb must be placed at the correct height for that image to have uniform illumination. You could hold the bulb and move it up and down by hand while examining illumination on white paper on the easel, thus you can find the correct height of the bulb.

Enjoy!
Mark

far2canadian · Apr 28, 2023

Thanks Mark. I did notice the the XL lamp cap is quite a bit taller - I assumed it increased the distance of the lamp to the condenser for heat reasons, rather than illumination like you're suggesting.
I'll do what you described and figure out a way of adding a spacer between the cap and enlarger housing. 3D printing may come to the rescue, or some crafting welding / metal fabrication.

mshchem · Apr 28, 2023

far2canadian said:
Hey all, I am the proud new owner of a Beseler 23C II XL with a Dual Dichro S head, and a spare dual Dichro head. The enlarger came with 3 lenses and everything I need to get printing. $400. I felt like I got a solid deal.

However.

I got a table built, blacked out my windows, and was proudly showing my wife my new darkroom. And then the bulb on the Dual Dichro S burns out (at that very moment). Fun. OK. No worries, I have the spare Dual Dichro head - turns out they have different bulbs. OK....order bulbs (I ordered three, just in case), it takes 5 days for them to arrive. Patience engaged.

In the meantime, I thought about getting the standard incandescent lamp for the enlarger, in case the dichro head dies completely. As luck would have it, there's one (only one) on eBay, so I grabbed it.

When the new EVW bulbs for the dichro arrived yesterday, I put a fresh bulb in. It all works fine for a few minutes, then that SECOND bulb for the dichro head burns out ( I'm totally disappointed now. I check the voltage coming out of the timer, it's at 120V. I checked the voltage coming out of the contacts for the bulb. It's at about 71.7v.

(http://imgur.com/rjsCKIX)
(http://imgur.com/SQon3BI)
(http://imgur.com/QPFNh8X)
(http://imgur.com/Fv3cFne)
The new bulb is rated 82V and is a GE, real bulb. EVW, as stated in the manual.

(http://imgur.com/rgFWZwa)
(http://imgur.com/yqEyM6F)
The standard incandescent lamp cap was on the way, so I decide to wait again and not throw ANOTHER quartz/halogen bulb into the dichro head.

Incandescent lamp head arrives today! Great! However! It turns out it's for a 23C II ----- not a 23C II XL ----- they have different lamp housing ((

(http://imgur.com/xVY2m7c)
So I'm pretty disappointment at the moment and just want to print!! Here's what I need help with:

I can't find a voltage problem with the dichro head. But I'm not an electrician. Could there be a spike causing the bulbs to burn out and how would I check for that? I did try measuring with my voltmeter as I turned the unit on/off and turning the timer on/off. The voltage never exceeded 71-72V out of the bulb socket, and never more than 120v from the timer outlet.

Is it possible some goon touched the EVW halogen bulb when packing, and that caused the replacement bulb to blow within minutes?? I have 2 more. I cold wipe them down with alcohol and try again.

I could hack / rewire / remount the incandescent lamp head to fit this enlarger and have the bulb pointing vertically down, not horizontally like it does now. That would make the lamp head fit -in any case, I can't find a replacement lamp head specifically for the 23C II XL. Maybe I'll need to make this one work?

-----

Sorry for the long post - what would you do? Any advice / thoughts / experience? Like I said, I'm exercising patience over here, but would love any thoughts on a way forward.

There should be a cooling fan in the dichro heads, no ventilation will toast the EVW lamps in short order. The fear of fingerprints is a bit of caution as this can cause the bulb to shatter, not what you are seeing.

koni56 · May 9, 2023

Bonjour
Je suis en France et j'utilise un traducteur automatique
j'utilise un dicho dual head il n'y a pas de transfo tout se passe dans la tete il y a une double prise une pour le ventilo et une pour la lampe j'utilise une lampe elh 300w et 120 volt et ca marche cette disposition n'existe pas dans la documentation beseler que j'ai pu trouver est-ce votre cas? ils recommandent une lampe de 82 v et ça ne marche pas
la lampe que vous montrez est une lampe pour l'ancien beseler 23c et le premier 23cii ba15s introuvable en europe d'ailleurs en 220 volts
il faut un ph140 en europe ph1400 en 220 volts
Sincèrement

Traduit avec www.DeepL.com/Translator (version gratuite)

koraks · May 9, 2023

@koni56 welcome to Photrio!
Looks like something didn't work out well with the translator. Here's Google's version:

koni56 said:
Good morning
I am in France and I use an automatic translator
I use a dual head dicho there is no transformer everything happens in the head there is a double socket one for the fan and one for the lamp I use an elh 300w and 120 volt lamp and this works provision does not exist in the beseler documentation that I could find is this your case? they recommend an 82v lamp and it doesn't work
the lamp you show is a lamp for the old beseler 23c and the first 23cii ba15s not found in europe elsewhere in 220 volts
you need a ph140 in europe ph1400 in 220 volts
Sincerely

Google Translate can be accessed in several ways; one is through this link: https://www.google.com/search?q=translate

xkaes · May 9, 2023

Do you have the manuals for these enlargers and heads??? It sounds like you are using the wrong power supplies for the colorheads. Just as Beseler made different heads, they made different power supplies. You can't mix apples with oranges. If you connect an 82v bulb to 120v of electricity, it will blow up. A timer provides 120v of electricity. It is not a power supply -- which cuts the voltage down to what the bulb needs.
Stop doing what you are doing until you know what you are doing -- before you do some REAL damage.

craigclu · May 9, 2023

I went through a similar sequence many years back and another person shared that they corrected theirs by a very thorough cleaning of the contact points/socket areas. I did that and it corrected my issues. The contact areas didn't look corroded so I doubt I would have discovered the cure on my own.

Alv s · Nov 7, 2023

Hello!
I'm having the exact same issue with a Beseler 23c ii with the Dual Dichro S. I think my model is not the XL, though. I used two new bulbs and used gloves to handle them. The first one lasted some prints. The latter only some test strips. In the back of the enlarger states that it's a EVW bulb 82V. I managed to find a low quality version of a page of the manual where it confirms this. I'm attaching the image.
I'm basically clueless about what could make this happen. In the end it has an internal transformer and stabilizer, as far as I know. I'd like to see the electric diagram, so if someone has access to the manual of the Dichro S I'd be very thankful. After hours of looking online I couldn't find it.
The solution that craigclu said is interesting, I might a new bulb and try it after cleaning everything thoroughly.

MattKing · Nov 7, 2023

As I recall, there are two versions of that light source. One has the voltage transformer built in, whereas the other requires a separate transformer.
Can you clarify which one you have? What power plug does it have? Are you sure that the one you have is set up for the AC voltage in Turkey?

BTC · Nov 7, 2023

I am by no means an expert on these enlargers but there is a blue one in pieces all over the dining room table so I’ve been doing some research…
In regards to the condenser lamp housing I am not sure the cap issue is specifically for the XL, but they did change from a horizontal orientation to a vertical orientation of the lamp at some point. They look basically the same externally except for the notch on the inside that allows the horizontal lamp socket to fit down into the “reflector.”

You can however see that the horizontal lamp cap is roughly a disk, the diameter of the mounting screw is almost as tall as the cap. The vertically oriented cap has a projection above this disk shape making a top hat if you will.

The real questions is why are the old blue ones completely black inside? It seems at some point they started making the baffle/reflector white. Curious as to how this might change the performance

Alv s · Nov 8, 2023

Hi MattKing. I found a quote from Dichro S manual in this forum that said that Dichro S has an internal transformer.

"The Dual Dichro S operates on standard household current [120 volt, 60Hz US and Canada] and may be plugged directly into an AC wall outlet without the need of an additional power supply. There are two power cords which must be connected (Fig 24) for the unit to operate. The balck cord (marked "To Timer") should be plugged into your "enlarger" outlet of your enlarging timer and the gray cord (marked "To Wall Outlet") should be plugged directly into an AC wall outlet. ... To protect against line voltage fluctuations which may cause undesirable color and density shifts in your prints, a voltage stabilizer is built into the colorhead. Do not plug the colorhead into an accessory stabilizer."

After reading this I got the bulb and plugged it to the wall + timer. It worked for some hours so I'd say it's set up for Turkish 220V-50hz. In theback of the enlarger says '200-260Volts 50hz only'.

Thanks for your time.

MattKing · Nov 8, 2023

You are welcome. I'm glad that you have the version of the head that matches that version of the manual .
Your earlier issues may have been due to either a problem with a particular bulb, or contacts that needed to be cleaned.
Sometimes replacing a bulb helps a bit by partially cleaning the contacts as well.

Chan Tran · Nov 8, 2023

Any way the OP measured the voltage at the socket and it was 71V so it should be OK for a 82V lamp.

mgb74 · Nov 8, 2023

As I recall, there is a rocker switch for the fan on the dichro head. It's not easily seen.

Tom Taylor · Nov 8, 2023

I have a Beseler 23CIIXL and the Instruction manual that came with it is for both the CII and the XL version. It says to "always use a PH140 lamp (75 watts), Beseler Catalogue #8101." On the exploded view it shows the lamp as being a "2/2A" The 2 is a #8101 bulb and the 2A is a PH1400 (240V) bulb for Europe. The Dual Dichro-S Colorhead is listed as an accessory.

Alv s · Nov 9, 2023

I'll check mine myself next week. I'm wondering if the current stabilizer could be damaged somehow...

About the rocker switch for the fan: I'm aware and I've been turning it on before the bulb, since I'm aware that it can easily overheat. I might have to clean the air vent just in case that was the issue... I haven't thought about that.

Qutie interesting that the 23CIIXL manual is the same. In this case since the Dichro S has the internal transformer and a different bulb I'd say it's not the right document for my issue.

Thanks everybody!

ic-racer · Nov 9, 2023

In a typical pulse wave modulated switching power supply (like might provide 82V for your lamp) the mains voltage (120V nominal, in your case) would be connected straight to the switching triac.
If the lamp socket is not making good connection, it can spike up to 120V to the lamp and fry it instantly, as you have seen.

If this is the case, the solution is to replace the lamp socket.

Alv s · Nov 10, 2023

Hello!
I found some diagrams of a Dual Dichro. Not sure of which model. I am attaching it here in case it can be useful for someone else.

far2canadian · Nov 10, 2023

Nice job, guys! You know more about all of this than I do!

Beseler 23C II XL - Need help solving one of two problems

far2canadian

albada

far2canadian

mshchem

koni56

koraks

Moderator

xkaes

craigclu

Alv s

MattKing

Moderator

BTC

Alv s

MattKing

Moderator

Chan Tran

mgb74

Tom Taylor

Alv s

ic-racer

Alv s

far2canadian

Beseler 23C II XL - Need help solving one of two problems

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency