Beseler 23c headache

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Peter Schrager

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Two issues
Firstly the upper stage for adjusting the negative size/condenser only moves from the 35mm setting to midway for the 21/4 setting. At that point the upper bellows are completely compressed ...
Secondly I only printed one time now and the exposures seem to be way long. I pulled the enlarger out of my uncle's darkroom so its unused for over 20 years...is it possible the bulb went sour as it lights up fine. Just ordered a new bulb ...any hints on either of these issues....
I'm not a beseler fan at all but it's what I have to work with right now...
Thanks in advance
 

mshchem

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I'm a Beseler 45 user. If your upper bellows are truly totally compressed that should be at 6x9 setting. Those goofy bulbs in the 23c are a pain. No reason to live with it if you don't like it. Still tons of used stuff. I have used the 4x5 version for over 40 years. I haven't used the condenser head forever, having said that the condenser head is absolutely foolproof.
 

mshchem

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Two issues
Firstly the upper stage for adjusting the negative size/condenser only moves from the 35mm setting to midway for the 21/4 setting. At that point the upper bellows are completely compressed ...
Secondly I only printed one time now and the exposures seem to be way long. I pulled the enlarger out of my uncle's darkroom so its unused for over 20 years...is it possible the bulb went sour as it lights up fine. Just ordered a new bulb ...any hints on either of these issues....
I'm not a beseler fan at all but it's what I have to work with right now...
Thanks in advance
Can you post a picture of the unit?
 
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Peter Schrager

Peter Schrager

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PhotoPictureResizer_190215_200011192-864x864.jpg
u PhotoPictureResizer_190215_200011192-864x864.jpg
 

Mr Bill

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Peter, you should remove that tape (and clean off residue) attaching the upper bellows to the cylindrical condenser housing. The rounded top of the bellows should be free to slide up and down over the condenser housing. There should be plenty of adjustment once you do that, and the bellows won't have to be mashed so tightly together.
 
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Peter Schrager

Peter Schrager

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Peter, you should remove that tape (and clean off residue) attaching the upper bellows to the cylindrical condenser housing. The rounded top of the bellows should be free to slide up and down over the condenser housing. There should be plenty of adjustment once you do that, and the bellows won't have to be mashed so tightly together.
I already tried that..the tape is there because I noticed the bellows was not fitting right enough around the condenser housing..I'm stumped!
 

Mr Bill

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I already tried that..the tape is there because I noticed the bellows was not fitting right enough around the condenser housing..I'm stumped!

Look, just pull the tape off and push the round upper part of the bellows up past that ridge on the bottom of the the condenser housing. It would have probably already popped up there on its own if it weren't for the tape holding it down. (The ridge keeps the bellows from pulling off when you rack the condensers higher up.)
 
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Peter Schrager

Peter Schrager

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Look, just pull the tape off and push the round upper part of the bellows up past that ridge on the bottom of the the condenser housing. It would have probably already popped up there on its own if it weren't for the tape holding it down. (The ridge keeps the bellows from pulling off when you rack the condensers higher up.)
I get it but the bellows wont go above the ridge
Short of taking this thing completely apart not something I want to do...could the bellows slip down over that ridge but themselves..I highly doubt it ...
 

mshchem

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Go to James Jollingers site
www.jollinger.com

There's copies of old and new 23c manuals. I think that someone may have put it together wrong. That ridge looks like it should be covered by the upper bellows
 

Mr Bill

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I just tried on a 23C, slipped the round top of the bellows on and off the condenser (over the ridge) a couple of times. It takes slight force - maybe a couple pounds of pressure - to wiggle it on and off. Mine is a model from about 1970, bought new. But you can look at various online photos that show how the top of the bellows "floats" at different positions around the condenser housing.

If you can't get it over the ridge perhaps your uncle has packed something inside of the bellows? There should be a narrow strip of velvet-like material inset into a hollow area inside the round sleeve at top of bellows. Maybe if this comes out of its seat it could jam? It's a fairly close slip fit, so wouldn't take much to keep it from slipping over the ridge.
 

mshchem

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I just tried on a 23C, slipped the round top of the bellows on and off the condenser (over the ridge) a couple of times. It takes slight force - maybe a couple pounds of pressure - to wiggle it on and off. Mine is a model from about 1970, bought new. But you can look at various online photos that show how the top of the bellows "floats" at different positions around the condenser housing.

If you can't get it over the ridge perhaps your uncle has packed something inside of the bellows? There should be a narrow strip of velvet-like material inset into a hollow area inside the round sleeve at top of bellows. Maybe if this comes out of its seat it could jam? It's a fairly close slip fit, so wouldn't take much to keep it from slipping over the ridge.
Yeah, what you said :smile:. All the pictures in the manuals show the Bellows floating. It's not like my 4x5 where they are smashed tight.
 
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Peter Schrager

Peter Schrager

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I just tried on a 23C, slipped the round top of the bellows on and off the condenser (over the ridge) a couple of times. It takes slight force - maybe a couple pounds of pressure - to wiggle it on and off. Mine is a model from about 1970, bought new. But you can look at various online photos that show how the top of the bellows "floats" at different positions around the condenser housing.

If you can't get it over the ridge perhaps your uncle has packed something inside of the bellows? There should be a narrow strip of velvet-like material inset into a hollow area inside the round sleeve at top of bellows. Maybe if this comes out of its seat it could jam? It's a fairly close slip fit, so wouldn't take much to keep it from slipping over the ridge.
Thanks it might take 2 people to do it but I get it now... will report back!!!
You guys are AMAZING!!
 

Ian C

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From the photos you showed, your upper bellows was definitely incorrectly assembled where it joins the condenser unit. The tape shown and any residual adhesive must be removed, so that the bellows can freely slide over the outside diameter of the condenser housing.

The annular bulge formed onto the cylindrical body of the condenser unit serves the important purpose of retaining the bellows so that the bellows won’t slip off of the condenser housing on upward travel. It requires force to fit the bellows over the bulge as you assemble the bellows over the condenser housing. Once that’s accomplished the bulge retains the top of the bellows on the condenser housing during upward travel of the housing and lamp head.

You might make assembly a bit easier by waxing the bulge and the outside diameter of the condenser housing with auto-body wax and buffing it smooth. That should also allow the bellows to slip more freely over the housing when adjusting the lamp house and condenser unit height to accommodate format changes.

As the lamphouse and condenser are raised, the condenser unit rises and slips freely inside the circular hole in the bellows until the larger-diameter bulge encounters the bellows. The bulge cannot freely pass through the circular hole in the bellows due to the interference fit, so further upward movement of the condenser & lamphouse begins pulling the bellows upward expanding them.

On downward travel of the lamphouse and bellows as a unit, the bellows begin to collapse until they are nearly compressed. Further downward travel causes the smooth body of the condenser unit to begin to slide down inside the compressed bellows (clearance is provided) so that the condensers can be brought closer to the negative for even illumination of larger negatives up to 6 x 9 cm.

Older manual:

http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/enlargers/beseler/Beseler_23C(older).pdf

Newer manual:

http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/enlargers/beseler/Beseler_23C(newer).pdf

Focusing the Condenser Unit:

The format guide scale is a good starting point, but due to way that the parts fit together, some of these 23C enlargers with the condenser system produce uneven illumination at the height setting for the format in use. I experimented with mine and found a way to improve this on 23Cs that have such a problem.

I first focus a negative at the indicated format setting. Then I remove the negative and re-install the carrier. I project white light with onto a sheet of white paper with the lens aperture closed 1 stop (for evenness of the projected light insofar as the lens is a factor). Then I fine-tune the position of the lamphouse and bellows for the most uniform illumination on the white paper. This is the condenser height that I will use to print.

On some 23C enlargers the best height is close to the marked setting on the scale. On others, it might require a 10 mm or more difference in condenser height compared to the marked format height to obtain the most uniform light on the white paper.
 

choiliefan

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Do you have a bellows under that bulged shroud?
Perhaps the bellows themselves are gone and the shroud is glued down to the upper stage?
As said, the bellows unfold easily.
 
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