Bergger's president communicate

Roger Hicks · Feb 6, 2007

mhv said:
Also, companies do not come here because nobody ASKS them to. Those who browse the forums probably just run away screaming from the zealots.

I know more than one manufacturer who takes this view -- and several distributors too. This makes Ilford's stance all the more admirable, but we should not automatically condemn those who do not participate in these forums.

Cheers,

R.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 6, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
I know more than one manufacturer who takes this view -- and several distributors too. This makes Ilford's stance all the more admirable, but we should not automatically condemn those who do not participate in these forums.

Cheers,

R.

I agree with you, I think one of the big PR games to be played these days is about direct public contact. I remember in 1996 how "cool" it was for the heads of state to have an official email address at which you could perhaps reach them directly...

All the newspapers are opening discussion forums to each news, organisations are looking for "our comments", even the little place where I work has a web site that is begging for people to come and say their wise words to us. In parallel, a lot of high-traffic specialized communities are sprouting, taking the role of informal focus groups. But they're messier than a focus group, more vocal, and less statistically harmonized.

It's not exactly a swamp, but neither is it a glacial lake.

Sean · Feb 6, 2007

mhv said:
Also, companies do not come here because nobody ASKS them to. Those who browse the forums probably just run away screaming from the zealots.

Unfortunately this is pretty much the case with any large internet forum. There will always be x amount of armchair critics per 100 users. That number is probably lower here than some places but they can still be a highly vocal bunch so seem much larger. If I wasn't admin I'd add every single one to my ignore list but oh well.. I've mentioned in the past everyone here has a choice to HELP traditional photography along and be positive. Many chose to do exactly that and they have my utmost respect. For the others they will criticize everything they can and if they run traditional photography into the ground they will criticize everyone for not doing enough..

uraniumnitrate · Feb 6, 2007

mhv said:
Sure, but my point remains that despite your criticisms of Bergger et al. you do not seem to be intent on bringing these fine folks to the debate here and let them show us we're right or wrong.

I admire Simon and PE because they are here even if discussions go ruff! Probably and its the only way to do it to be close to your costumers even if they are here to watch their investment or interest. That is brilliant in my eye and just show that they are interested in some ways. We dont had to be friends but their being here shows something.

I have wrote earlier that if Mr Gerard or J&C come out here and says that he need money in order to save Forte I would even buy some shares with out any hesitation

Its not my do to bring out others here it must be their interest to do so and its up to them and not up to me or us for that matter. It's a free world we living in.

gr82bart · Feb 6, 2007

mhv said:
Also, companies do not come here because nobody ASKS them to. Those who browse the forums probably just run away screaming from the zealots.

Another problem is if one of their spokespersons comes unsolicited, the same group of zealots will label them shills for their products. This happened when one supplier (who actually happened to be a advertiser here posted a review and people were all over the poor guy for shilling - mostly because the same group of people liked another product more - I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls his ad from the site next year). They lose either way with these people.

Worse, is that Sean loses. Something zealots never think about - only themselves.

Regards, Art.

Kino · Feb 6, 2007

What a bunch of sore heads

JBrunner · Feb 6, 2007

Kino said:
What a bunch of sore heads

It does seem to me that a small clutch of people have developed that must simply piss on everything.

Ian Leake · Feb 6, 2007

You know what? It makes me mad when sad, bitter people attack companies committed to film photography.

I really don't care whether Bergger's products (or any one else's for that matter) are made by someone else. That's the way of the world and it isn't going to go away. Company A has excess capacity which they sell to company B. Anyone who has even the most basic grasp of economics understands that this is a GOOD thing not a bad thing.

We all know that the business of analogue photography is tough at the moment. So please stop beating up companies that are committed to film.

I wish Bergger the best of luck finding the alternative suppliers for their products. Of course the new products will be different from the old ones, but so what. At least they'll be film products on the market not in the history books.

And if you've got nothing positive to say then please just shut up!

jstraw · Feb 6, 2007

Ian Leake said:
You know what? It makes me mad when sad, bitter people attack companies committed to film photography.

I really don't care whether Bergger's products (or any one else's for that matter) are made by someone else. That's the way of the world and it isn't going to go away. Company A has excess capacity which they sell to company B. Anyone who has even the most basic grasp of economics understands that this is a GOOD thing not a bad thing.

We all know that the business of analogue photography is tough at the moment. So please stop beating up companies that are committed to film.

I wish Bergger the best of luck finding the alternative suppliers for their products. Of course the new products will be different from the old ones, but so what. At least they'll be film products on the market not in the history books.

And if you've got nothing positive to say then please just shut up!

Gee, are we allowed to keep speaking if we have both positive and negative things to say?

Aurelien · Feb 6, 2007

I totally agree with you, Ian

Paul Howell · Feb 6, 2007

Ian Leake said:
You know what? It makes me mad when sad, bitter people attack companies committed to film photography.

I really don't care whether Bergger's products (or any one else's for that matter) are made by someone else. That's the way of the world and it isn't going to go away. Company A has excess capacity which they sell to company B. Anyone who has even the most basic grasp of economics understands that this is a GOOD thing not a bad thing.

We all know that the business of analogue photography is tough at the moment. So please stop beating up companies that are committed to film.

I wish Bergger the best of luck finding the alternative suppliers for their products. Of course the new products will be different from the old ones, but so what. At least they'll be film products on the market not in the history books.

And if you've got nothing positive to say then please just shut up!

I could not have said it better. I cannot support every company or supplier that is making an effort to stay in bussiness, some times all I can offer is moral support.

Aurelien · Feb 6, 2007

The most important is to keep working with film, because we love it and that's why we are on apug

jd callow · Feb 6, 2007

JBrunner said:
I vote that all these odiferous industry politico hearsay threads get their own forum, next to doom and gloom, down by the soapbox. It could be called "rumors and other posturings"

I agree or we could just redirect the posts of a select group into a thread of a similar nature. Many of these threads are fine and dandy at least should be fine and dandy.

It is impossible to imagine that any of these companies could ever appease some of these people.

It is a pretty needy group.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 6, 2007

gr82bart said:
Another problem is if one of their spokespersons comes unsolicited, the same group of zealots will label them shills for their products. This happened when one supplier (who actually happened to be a advertiser here posted a review and people were all over the poor guy for shilling - mostly because the same group of people liked another product more - I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls his ad from the site next year). They lose either way with these people.

Worse, is that Sean loses. Something zealots never think about - only themselves.

Regards, Art.

Good observation, Art, I've noticed that dr5's recent photos in their gallery have raised such reactions. It had to be said explicitly that they were sponsoring APUG, hence entitled to demonstrate a little their product.

Anyway, isn't this thread already stale from too much gastric fluids? We spoilt yet another potentially good announcement. Awesome.

jstraw · Feb 6, 2007

In all fairness to the critics in the above mentioned thread, one sponsor purporting to objectively compare his product with his competitors product was problematic...and doing so via reading his competitors manual but without ever getting his hands on the product, doubly so.

Wayne · Feb 6, 2007

A) Bergger paper is absolutely not rebadged Forte. I havent tried all of each's offerings but I've compared some of the closest would-be matches and they arent even close.

B) Who the hell am I? I'm just some noname guy who emailed Bergger USA with a question. They forwarded my email to the President in France, who personally replied to me within 24 hours when I'm sure he has much better things to do. Then he replied to my reply, again promptly. Thats some obfuscation, huh?

Now I dont care if people express their opinions but they should at least try to back them up with a sliver of substance and not criticise people (who are doing work that will help us all) without any justification whatsoever.

Photo Engineer · Feb 6, 2007

I have not been exactly praised here and elsewhere for mentioning my coating blades. Is this an ad, or a mention of new technology? IDK. I am going to quit the business, sell what I have left (still at cost), never order any more and donate the drawings to the public.

Anyhow, that is what I'm thinking. Did you read that Jorge?

PE

mark · Feb 6, 2007

Damnit, jim! The horse is dead. Can't you see that?

I'm with jason. How about these threads get moved way far away. I really don't think they do anyone anygood, after the first post, except give the pissers something to piss about.

mark · Feb 6, 2007

PE what the HELL are you talking about.

I have followed your coating blade stuff from the beginning and it sounds facinating. Way over my head and wallet, but facinating none the less. WHy quit now.

resummerfield · Feb 6, 2007

gr82bart said:
Another problem is if one of their spokespersons comes unsolicited, the same group of zealots will label them shills for their products. This happened when one supplier (who actually happened to be a advertiser here posted a review and people were all over the poor guy for shilling - mostly because the same group of people liked another product more - I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls his ad from the site next year). They lose either way with these people......

Well said, Art.

jstraw · Feb 6, 2007

Wayne said:
A) Bergger paper is absolutely not rebadged Forte. I havent tried all of each's offerings but I've compared some of the closest would-be matches and they arent even close.

B) Who the hell am I? I'm just some noname guy who emailed Bergger USA with a question. They forwarded my email to the President in France, who personally replied to me within 24 hours when I'm sure he has much better things to do. Then he replied to my reply, again promptly. Thats some obfuscation, huh?

Now I dont care if people express their opinions but they should at least try to back them up with a sliver of substance and not criticise people (who are doing work that will help us all) without any justification whatsoever.

I never ever ever accused you of any obfuscation. I hope that's clear. If it was unclear, I owe you an apology.

resummerfield · Feb 6, 2007

mark said:
.......I have followed your coating blade stuff from the beginning and it sounds facinating. Way over my head and wallet, but facinating none the less. WHy quit now.

PE, your work with the blades and emulsions is one of the highlights of this forum. Like Mark, I have been closely following your endeavors, and I'm trying to budget enough to get a blade and take your course. Keep up the great work!

Photo Engineer · Feb 6, 2007

mark said:
PE what the HELL are you talking about.

I have followed your coating blade stuff from the beginning and it sounds facinating. Way over my head and wallet, but facinating none the less. WHy quit now.

You didn't read those posts on PN?

It was said half tongue in cheek because the reaction was similar to yours.

PE

mark · Feb 6, 2007

I don't read PN. What do you mean.

Wayne · Feb 6, 2007

jstraw said:
I never ever ever accused you of any obfuscation. I hope that's clear. If it was unclear, I owe you an apology.

No I wasnt thinking that you were accusing me, but the accusation is unjustified just the same.

I say kill this thing now. MEDIC!

Wayne

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