Bergger WT Fiber Disscussion

[Richard Jepsen]

I used this paper as my base paper a few years back. Then it was not available.

What is the back story and who is coating the paper now?

Is the emulsion similar to the paper available in 2008/9 before Forte closed?

 

[JLP]

Different paper now. The old Bergger WT was Fortes Polywarmtone, the new emulsion is made by Ilford Harmon (as far as I know) and looks very similar to Ilford WT paper.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

So no more split tones.....mushroom highs with cool shadows?

 

[JLP]

The new Bergger WT paper is more difficult to tone than the old paper, a characteristic similar to the Ilford WT. I am sure there some with more toning experience than I have, I tend to tone with Selenium mostly and it does not change much tone in that except if the paper is fresh, I find it often have a green cast that disappears in Selenium.

 

[K-G]

I have recently finished a Printing session were I used both Adox MCC 110 , Ilford MGWT and Berger Variable CB . What I could se is that Berger has a warmer white in the emulsion than Adox MCC but clearly brighter than that of MGWT . Berger gives a more intense and even colour change towards red/brown in selenium than Adox MCC . I didn't try MGWT with toning. The old Berger WT that I have tried, I found was even more creamy in the emulsion white than Ilford MGWT. They are wonderful papers all three, but if you want to get as close as possible to the old Berger WT, I think Ilford MGWT would be the choice, at least when you compare untoned prints. If you want a slightly warm black without creamy whites, Berger CB does the job. If you want bright whites with a touch of warmth in the black, go for Adox.

Karl-Gustaf

 

[Richard Jepsen]

What is the safelight recommendation? RED?

ADOX paper base is what I call bright white.

 

[K-G]

What is the safelight recommendation? RED?

ADOX is paper base is what I call bright white.

Red and orange . Both work.

Karl-Gustaf

 

[Richard Jepsen]

That makes me think its a Foma paper. Is that possible?

Foma uses a natural white paper support which is different than Illord WT.

 

[K-G]

I am not 100 % sure , but from what I have heard both Berger CB and NB ( neutral tone ) and ADOX Variotone ( their warmtone paper ) are manufactured by Harman/Ilford according to Berger's and ADOX's specifications.

Karl-Gustaf

 

[Richard Jepsen]

The ADOX Premium Variotone (red safelight) tones much faster than Ilford WT. So K-G, you suspect Bergger WT and ADOX Fineprint Variotone Premium are the same product?

It's been a while since I tried ADOX Premium. If I recall it was a bright white base?

 

[MartinP]

They wouldn't be identical products, as they were made to more-or-less match the previous versions of each paper. Don't forget that Harman can design and make relatively small batches (smaller and more 'customised' than any other manufacturer) of unique products efficiently and at low cost. They spent a lot of time and effort in rebuilding their company to enable this and that is why they are now the world leader in black-and-white photographic products.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

I've been bummed out to lose 4 base papers. Harman/Ilford will be the one that lasts and I'm happy about that. I could wish for their papers to lie flatter like some of the Foma products but the papers and films are outstanding.

 

[K-G]

The ADOX Premium Variotone (red safelight) tones much faster than Ilford WT. So K-G, you suspect Bergger WT and ADOX Fineprint Variotone Premium are the same product?

It's been a while since I tried ADOX Premium. If I recall it was a bright white base?

No ! What I meant is that ADOX Premium Warmtone is made to ADOX specifications and that Berger WT is made to Berger specifications but I think both papers are coated by Harman/Ilford . The emulsion brightness seems to be the same for both of them, but for what I have been able to judge the ADOX paper has a slight tendency to go in the greenish direction while Berger is leaning slightly towards the brown. Very slight tendencies and others may have different opinions.

Karl-Gustaf