Bergger vccb toning

Hi,
I am using Bergger Prestige glossy paper. I am having trouble with toning the paper. I process the paper completely including final wash. Let dry over night and start from the toning the next day. I soak the prints for about 10 minutes or so. They go into the Selenium toner for about 5 minutes then into a wash for 5 minutes then into a hardened (Kodak part b at 13 to ) for 5 minutes. Then washed for 5 minutes then into a wash aid for 5 minutes then finally into the final wash for 30 minutes. The last step is into a print flattener for two minutes. They are then air dried on screens. They look great wet but when they dry down they are mottled and extremely soft. A cotton ball will scratch the paper. This is not true of them before toning them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,Tim

Hi Tim,

I can't comment on the Bergger paper. Does this happen with other papers? Some emulsions are softer than others but all should be able to withstand normal handling when dry. Here's a few suggestions to investigate your workflow:

Why are you using a hardener? Could it be leaving a deposit on the surface of your prints? You shouldn't need to use emulsion hardener or hardening fixer with prints - they're intended to prevent scratches on films and will increase print wash times. I've never needed to use them.

Are you using a hotbed glazer/dryer? Is the canvas clean? Chemistry and muck can build up on the canvas, especially in a shared, public or educational darkroom environment. Otherwise - is your 'print flattener' clean of chemicals and other muck?

The print drying screens shouldn't be a problem as long as they're clean and the prints lie face upwards. Any water pooling in dimples might leave permanent stains as it dries. This is an issue with Ilford MGFB IV matt paper, which has a soft emulsion. Been there, done that...

If you eliminate/discount these variables and still have a problem, you might suspect your toner chemistry. Is it fresh and made up according to the instructions? Do you mix it yourself? Could you have a duff bottle? Could it be contaminated with other chemistry?

Cheers,
kevs.

Hi Kevs,

I use a hardener because the prints scratch when i try to take a little dust on them off. They are super fine scratchs I will admit but they should not be there. Also when you sepia tone a print it is highly recommend that you use a hardener. I use Kodak part b at 13 to 1, for 5 minutes. The prints are dryed on screens, face down. All chemistry has been replaced most often. The toner is fresh and Kodak rapid selinium toner at 1 to 20, usually for 5 or so minutes. The mottling seems to come more after toning. Toning makes the print weak, almost like there was no hardener in the print. I have even washed a print that had no problems and when it dried there was some mottling. There are also small spots like the size of a pin that are a dark gray in tone on a black background and I simply can not spot them out. The spotone does not change the tone at all. Where there was a "dust spot on the print no problem with spotting in and on the same print. There are only 2 things I can not account for. One is my water supply, it come from the town. I do have 2 filters on the line coming into the dark room., and they are changed once every three months. The hard part to all this is that after the excess water is removed from the prints they look really good, no problem. It's when they get closer to finishing drying that all the problems appear. At this point I might add that I do mostly nudes on a black background, so betweent the both they problems do tend to stand out much more dramatically then if you shoot landscapes. Mistakes on either or loook like they are high lighted.
Thank you fo taking the time to read the first post and now this and the time it took you to respond, it is much appreciated.
Tim

Tim,

Thanks for your reply, and for explaining the reason for the hardener. I don't know what to suggest to avoid the scratches. Perhaps others can jump in here - I have no experience with the Bergger paper. If you you scan a print and post it here, others could probably help more than me. Which selenium toner are you using? Again, others may have encountered these problems.

You said that you washed and dried a print that had no problem, but it became mottled after drying - this suggests to me that the mottling might be coming from your drying system. Have you tried drying the prints face up on the screens - or drying prints elsewhere? Moisture trapped between the screen and the paper could cause that problem - although you'd probably see the pattern of the screens.

Assuming they're not on the negative, the dark grey spots could be coming from your toner or hardener - are there any tiny black specs of matter in the bottom of the bottles? Fine debris landing on the prints while wet can become embedded in the gelatin.

I wish I could help you further, I know how frustrating these problems can be. I hope you can get it sorted out soon.

Cheers,
kevs.

Tim,

Further to the above, the thread at (there was a url link here which no longer exists) should help - specifically post 5 by Doremus Scudder - very informative.

Cheers,
kevs