Benefit of distilled water final rinse?

jay moussy · Jul 18, 2021

I was just reading a developing guide online, and its author uses distilled water for the final rinse, only.

Would that be enough to prevent whatever may crystallize or get deposited on the wet film?

Note that I am a beginner, tap water rinser, and feel my film could be "cleaner" post-rinse. I know I should finally get some Photoflo, as well, to improve that part of the process.

Adrian Bacon · Jul 18, 2021

I typically go from the wash in the developing tank to a distilled water bath, then to a wash of photoflo, also mixed with distilled water. I find that distilled water alone generally greatly reduces water spots, but does not eliminate them completely. The photoflo mixed with distilled water as a final dip basically guarantees no spots.

I put the distilled water bath between washing out the fix and the final photoflo mix because the water in my area is treated river water and while it’s clean enough to drink, the distilled water rinse significantly reduces the amount of crud that ends up in my bottle of photoflo so I can use it for a bit longer before refreshing it. Ymmv with your water supply.

BrianShaw · Jul 18, 2021

I suppose it depends a lot on the qualities of you municipal water. In Los Angeles, I use tap water washing and final rinse with tap water + photoflow at 50% of the recommended dilution. No water spots.

Danner · Jul 18, 2021

I mix my photoflo with distilled water. Two birds with one stone...

btaylor · Jul 18, 2021

BrianShaw said:
I suppose it depends a lot on the qualities of you municipal water. In Los Angeles, I use tap water washing and final rinse with tap water + photoflow at 50% of the recommended dilution. No water spots.

Maybe you’re in another part of town! I was getting annoying water spots in LA until I started using distilled water for my final photo-flow rinse. Previously when I lived in NorCal that was unnecessary. So as previously stated- depends on your water supply.

Pieter12 · Jul 18, 2021

btaylor said:
Maybe you’re in another part of town! I was getting annoying water spots in LA until I started using distilled water for my final photo-flow rinse. Previously when I lived in NorCal that was unnecessary. So as previously stated- depends on your water supply.

In Santa Monica, I use tap water running through an inline filter, no water-spots.

Doremus Scudder · Jul 18, 2021

Distilled water for the final bath with wetting agent is a good idea, especially if your water quality isn't so great. If you have good, soft tap water, you can mix your wetting agent with that. If you don't get spots, drying marks or mineral deposits on your film, you're good. If you do, switch to a distilled final rinse with wetting agent.

If your water is very hard, you need a rather long soak in the distilled water/wetting agent bath to get rid of the dissolved minerals in the emulsion - not the 30 seconds or so needed just to get the surfactant effect of the wetting agent. I like 3-5 minutes.

Note that wetting agents (like Photo Flo) don't like to be stored for a long period of time. They grow slime rather quickly. I mix mine with distilled water for one session only.

The problem with not using a wetting agent is that you can get droplets on your film. These spots then dry more slowly than the rest of the film and can cause stress marks in the emulsion that outline the water droplet. If you can shake all the drops off, or squeegee enough (without scratching your film) or whatever, you can get by without a wetting agent, but I've found that using a wetting agent is much, much more convenient. Make sure you mix your wetting agent according to directions or a bit weaker; mixing it to strong can leave deposits on the film when it dries.

Best,

Doremus

JensH · Jul 18, 2021

Danner said:
I mix my photoflo with distilled water. Two birds with one stone...

Me too - two flies with one swatter. ;-)

Andrew O'Neill · Jul 18, 2021

I wash using tap water (Ilford technique), after a few minutes in HCA, then straight into distilled water bath with a wetting agent added.

Robert Maxey · Jul 18, 2021

BrianShaw said:
I suppose it depends a lot on the qualities of you municipal water. In Los Angeles, I use tap water washing and final rinse with tap water + photoflow at 50% of the recommended dilution. No water spots.

Water quality certainly can make a difference. In our lab, from 1890 onward, we used three tanks: developer, water, fixer. These tanks were something like 5 or 6 feet tall, 14 inches square and made of glazed ceramic of one kind or another. They were mounted in a large rectangular area in the concrete floor with a sump pump.

Our wash water came from the mains and Photo-Flo handled the spots just fine. Not to offend anyone, but some ideas get started and persist that might be a non-starter. Seems reasonable to assume. I have never found any need for distilled water.

Your mileage may vary,

Bob

mshchem · Jul 18, 2021

Depends on the water. Where I grew up we had fabulous water. Where I live now water is very hard. I use RO water and a couple drops of LFN or Photoflo. I'm a believer in demineralized water for any final rinse, still need a wee bit of a wetting agent .

Paul Howell · Jul 18, 2021

Here in the Phoenix Metro area the water is really hard, my townhouse is set in such a way that we cannot fit a water softener or other treatment system in our small space. I use distilled water. When I lived in Southern Italy our water was just step way from salt water, all my chemistry was mixed with distilled water which was expensive.

winger · Jul 18, 2021

We have well water that's only slightly less hard than the rusty rocks it goes through. If we were tapped in, the municipal water here isn't much better. So I use distilled for most of my film washing (I use the Ilford method). While I use distilled and Photo Flo, I have occasionally still gotten water spots, but rarely (of course, only on the best frames).

warden · Jul 19, 2021

jay moussy said:
I was just reading a developing guide online, and its author uses distilled water for the final rinse, only.

Would that be enough to prevent whatever may crystallize or get deposited on the wet film?

Note that I am a beginner, tap water rinser, and feel my film could be "cleaner" post-rinse. I know I should finally get some Photoflo, as well, to improve that part of the process.

I'd start with Photoflo first, and no distilled water. Only if that doesn't work should you go the distilled route. In my case I have to use distilled as final rince/photoflo.

Nitroplait · Jul 19, 2021

Demineralised water will work as well as distilled water, and is usually cheaper.
I live in a city with clean but very hard water, and I have found great use of a small Reverse Osmosis setup which I use for mixing photo chemicals as well as the final rinse/photoflo - it works great and the RO water is excellent for coffee, tea and ice-cubes as well

gone · Jul 19, 2021

As every city has different water, if you use distilled water you can avoid all of that. You just get water. No good for drinking, but good for photography and many other uses.

A little off subject, but I read of an interesting trick that someone does w/ their wet prints. They use tap water for the print development, then while the prints are hung and drying they spritz the surface of the print w/ distilled water to avoid drying marks. I might try that (although just adding a little bit of Arista Flow Wetting Agent to the final print bath seems to be fixing that issue).

Steve Roberts · Jul 30, 2021

I just use distilled water for the final rinse, no wetting agent, which seems to leave occasional marks.
Steve

gone · Jul 30, 2021

I always use distilled water only for the final wash. Adding it to the developer seemed to do nothing, and I don't use a stop w/ film, just tap water.

I've had a LOT of water marks/stains on my negs lately. Never had them when I used Photo-Flot w/ or w/o distilled water, but I always filtered my chemicals through paper coffee filters then too. Don't do that anymore, it probably wasn't necessary. Using the Arista Flow instead of Photo-Flo was where my problems began, but it's been more than just that.

After Matt's suggestion to mix in a little alcohol w/ the Arista Flow and distilled water final wash, things improved greatly. Thought that had solved it, but there were a few faint marks I had missed. This morning I developed a roll of Foma 400 as usual, and again used my alcohol/Arista Flow/distilled final wash. But this time before hanging the film in the bathroom to dry, I ran a hot shower for a while, then hung the negs to dry, and shut the door. Came back later, negs were beautiful. I think in the past they had been drying too fast in my low humidity, desert air, and that contributed to the stains.

Vaughn · Jul 30, 2021

momus - (and anyone else) - just a thought about drying in dry conditions. How about a distilled water rinse, followed by an alcohol bath. Very fast drying, of course, but with the water displaced by a nice clean alcohol, would the film be more or less likely to have drying marks? Can't test it here even though we are having a bout of dry weather at the moment -- almost down to 50% RH!.

mshchem · Jul 30, 2021

momus said:
I always use distilled water only for the final wash. Adding it to the developer seemed to do nothing, and I don't use a stop w/ film, just tap water.

I've had a LOT of water marks/stains on my negs lately. Never had them when I used Photo-Flot w/ or w/o distilled water, but I always filtered my chemicals through paper coffee filters then too. Don't do that anymore, it probably wasn't necessary. Using the Arista Flow instead of Photo-Flo was where my problems began, but it's been more than just that.

After Matt's suggestion to mix in a little alcohol w/ the Arista Flow and distilled water final wash, things improved greatly. Thought that had solved it, but there were a few faint marks I had missed. This morning I developed a roll of Foma 400 as usual, and again used my alcohol/Arista Flow/distilled final wash. But this time before hanging the film in the bathroom to dry, I ran a hot shower for a while, then hung the negs to dry, and shut the door. Came back later, negs were beautiful. I think in the past they had been drying too fast in my low humidity, desert air, and that contributed to the stains.

Adding humidity, good idea! Gives the surfactant time to work.

JensH · Jul 30, 2021

Vaughn said:
momus - (and anyone else) - just a thought about drying in dry conditions. How about a distilled water rinse, followed by an alcohol bath. Very fast drying, of course, but with the water displaced by a nice clean alcohol, would the film be more or less likely to have drying marks? Can't test it here even though we are having a bout of dry weather at the moment -- almost down to 50% RH!.

Hi Vaughn,

not a bad idea.
There was an alcohol bath called Tetenal Drysonal made to work like that.
So press photographers could dry their film faster....

Best
Jens

Photowithfries · Jul 30, 2021

Seems to be more cost effective to use an Reverse Osmosis filtration unit rather than distilled water. Also it makes for better drinking water too.

foc · Jul 30, 2021

Photowithfries said:
Seems to be more cost effective to use an Reverse Osmosis filtration unit rather than distilled water. Also it makes for better drinking water too.

I know not everyone will have access to a reverse osmosis filter unit but the main point is FILTERED water. Distilled water should be pure/filtered (by its nature) but are all distilled waters created equal?

I think more problems are caused by adding too much of the wetting agent. A few small drops are all that is needed. (a few being 2 or 3 drops depending on the tank size). Also, use a good quality wetting agent, my personal favorite is Ilford Ilfotol.

Sirius Glass · Jul 31, 2021

BrianShaw said:
I suppose it depends a lot on the qualities of you municipal water. In Los Angeles, I use tap water washing and final rinse with tap water + photoflow at 50% of the recommended dilution. No water spots.

As Brian said it depend on your water. I too live in Los Angeles, never used distilled water, only tap water and following the PhotoFlo directions.

Benefit of distilled water final rinse?

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