"Bellows wrinkle??" Calling all native English speakers

Mats_A · Mar 18, 2011

I am looking at a Mamiya RB body at KEH. The description says

RB67 PRO-SD WITHOUT WAISTLEVEL BELLOWS WRINKLE MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS CAMERA BODY

The condition is EX. I know that all bellows are sort of wrinkled, that's how they fold. But does this mean a defect on this particular item? I understand that you do not work at KEH but I am curious to know if you natives could inform me if this is a normal phrase that means that the bellows are somewhat damaged?

r

Mats

mickster · Mar 18, 2011

I think it means that the bellows has a slight fault - usually in one of the corner folds which won't be folded perfectly any more.
This is probably nothing to worry about - my older LF cameras have a few of these in the bellows and they aren't a problem. *Pinholes* in the bellows would be a bigger issue as they can let in light leaks.

Ian Grant · Mar 18, 2011

It doesn't make sense, I'd email and ask them

Probably someone's bad description of bellows.

Ian

Marc B. · Mar 18, 2011

Mats,
The wording in that description is a bit unusual.
The use of the word wrinkle (and in this context), normally means something is wrong.
Email KEH, and get a clarification, maybe a photo of the camera with bellows extended.

English is my native language, (American English), and the use of the word wrinkle,
while trying to describe the condition of camera bellows, is confusing to me,
(and probably to most English language users), so don't feel bad about asking.

I think KEH should use words like "the folds" or "the creases" have issue, but not wrinkle.

Rick A · Mar 18, 2011

I have a bellows that has a wrinkle. Its a crease that won't fold properly, and appears wrinkled instead of flat like the other creases. It has no ill effect on the use of the bellows, but I suspect it may shorten the life span of it.

Mats_A · Mar 18, 2011

Thanks all. As usual this site is a goldmine of information. I have sent an email to KEH asking for some clarification. I just wanted to check that I wasn't going to ask a completely silly question. Looking stupid is easier among people who already knows you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

r

Mats

Smudger · Mar 18, 2011

Bellows Wrinkle

I wouldn't think twice about it :KEH grade pretty much on cosmetics : ie the wrinkle may offend your eye, but it is unlikely to offend your film.

2F/2F · Mar 19, 2011

It probably means that the [double] bellows is a bit caved in or bent in an area. But you can call them to find out for sure. They may even take a pic for you.

Jeff Kubach · Mar 19, 2011

When I get a wrinkle in the bellows of my RB67, I get out my iron and ironing board and fix it!

Mats_A · Mar 19, 2011

KEH says

A bellows "wrinkle" just means that there is
a significant crease in the bellows that is perpendicular to the bellows folds.

I have asked if it's purely cosmetical but since it's Saturday it might take a while for me to get an answer.

Can someone with experience of bellow cameras (or RB 67:s) please inform me if this is an issue. I don't mind ugly but if it affects functionality and lifetime of bellows that's something else.
All KEH items are prewrapped and stored. I don't think I can get a picture of it.

Decisions, decisions.....

r

Mats

MattKing · Mar 19, 2011

Most likely a wrinkle in a RB67's bellows wouldn't affect functionality. It is a square bellows, not a tapered one, so the wrinkle probably doesn't intrude into the light path (if it did, you probably couldn't compress it with the focus controls).

As for lifetime, it would be hard to tell, because it depends on the wrinkle.

Have you considered telephoning them? I know you are half a world away, but it is my understanding that KEH is much better at responding on the telephone than via email.

Ross Chambers · Mar 19, 2011

Dear Mats,

I have a Wista 4x5 and its bellows have a small wrinkle from a previous owner, apparently learning to fold is hard for some. It has not been a problem, however the construction of this camera asks for more care of the bellows than my RB67.

Looking just now at the RB67 I find that the bellows are well protected, housed within the body for longer focus and flanked by 2 substantial rails when extended.

I believe that you would have to work hard to wrinkle the bellows of a RB67 and it wouldn't be my first choice. Perhaps the very reliable KEH has another one available?

BTW I loved the Finnish Christmas film about the deer hunters rounding up the wild elves and exporting them. Just the film to terrify small children.

Regards - Ross

2F/2F · Mar 19, 2011

2F/2F said:
It probably means that the [double] bellows is a bit caved in or bent in an area. But you can call them to find out for sure. They may even take a pic for you.

My mistake. I had in my head that we were discussing the Mamiya C series cameras. I do not think the RB and RZ have a double bellows.

Mats_A · Mar 19, 2011

Ross Chambers said:
Dear Mats,

BTW I loved the Finnish Christmas film about the deer hunters rounding up the wild elves and exporting them. Just the film to terrify small children.

Regards - Ross

http://www.rareexportsmovie.com/en Must admit I have not seen the whole movie myself. Just the short YouTube version.

r

Mats

Marc B. · Mar 19, 2011

Mats,
Wait until Monday.
KEH will take pictures of items for you, you just need to give them time.
You should have images by Tuesday.

I have received images for two items before, only took one day each time.

hpulley · Mar 19, 2011

My RB67 bellows has a wrinkle, has since I bought it. So far so good...

John Koehrer · Mar 19, 2011

As conservative as KEH normally is, I'd question why a camera with a wrinkled bellows is rated as EX.
Just sayin'

Sal Santamaura · Mar 19, 2011

I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that others in the US aren't more conversant with American English. The definition is here:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wrinkle

That RB67 bellows, like all square bellows, is composed of many small flat surfaces folded to enable extension and contraction. The description means that, probably as a result of physical abuse or carelessness, one or more of the small flat surfaces is no longer flat. Unless damage is severe, the lack of flatness will neither cause light to leak nor reduce maximum/minimum extension.

"Bellows wrinkle??" Calling all native English speakers

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