beginner with inconsistent results

[Ben_hur]

Hi there,

this is my first post here. I have a sizeable experience on digital and have dabbled in bw - i have shot and developed maybe 20-30 rolls of tmax400/delta400/hp5 on 35mm.

the problem i am having is that I am being teased by a different feel to digital which i would like to explore but

1. my results are inconsistent - development and scanning is the problem here. what do i need to do to have a consistent workflow so that when i am shooting i can predict in my mind what the developed shot will look like
2. i am full of scratches and dust on the negatives - and i used to think dust spots on a sensor were a problem
3. I would like to have a good scanning solution...i currently scan film on a flatbed epson 4490 but i am not happy

can you give me hints to have a more predictable workflow (even if it involves recommending an outside lab which can develop and scan for me). To be honest I am not in love with the smells of chemicals and the fuss...I just want to have the final negative that`s all

Reuben

 

[dpurdy]

Malta. What a place to be from. I think it is best if analog photographers thrive off the smell and the fuss of chemicals and processing. Doing great work is mostly craft. But if you just want to take the pictures and let someone else do that I would make some calls around to the photographers in Malta and find someone who is good with darkroom work and would be happy to take on some custom processing. There are several good scanners available dedicated to 35mm film and one like that would be better than a flat bed.
Dennis (not in Malta but wishing he was)

 

[Tim Gray]

1 - Be consistent with developing. Agitate the same way each time. If you can use the same temperature each time, do that too. Or use compensated times. Also be consistent with metering. If your metering is all over the place, and your developing process is too, you'll get wildly inconsistent results.

2 - Photoflo, Ilfotol wetting agent, or another wetting agent in your final wash. If your water is cruddy, distilled water + the wetting agent for the final wash. Follow the instructions from Kodak or Ilford for development process (dev, water stop, fix, wash, final wash). Put in the right amount of wetting agent (I use about 2/3rds of the recommended amount for photoflo). Hang them up to dry in a dust free environment - the bathroom can be a good place. You can run the shower on hot to build up the humidity some before you hang them to dry.

3 - not really the place to discuss this, but dedicated 35mm scanners like a Nikon Coolscan, Minolta Dimage, etc are the way to go for not too much money.

It just takes time and consistency. If you handle you negatives roughly and leaving them laying about, they will get scratched and dusty. If you are careful in your processing and drying, and then store them in sleeves, dust is very easy to overcome.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

For consistency just do everything carefully and as exactly as directed. There is no magic to it: the more consistent the methods the more consistent the result.

You don't mention metering. If you have a camera with a good automatic meter you may want to just place it on 'A' and see if this improves things.

Scanners aren't made to scan silver based black and white film. IMO, even a high end Nikon scanner does a lousy job with B&W negatives.

You may want to try one of the chromogenic black&white films - Kodak's BW400CN or Ilford's XP2. The negatives get processed by the lab as if it were regular C-41 process color negative film. But the resultant negatives, being dye based, scan very well. Don't let the lab make prints - they will be awful.

 

[Mats_A]

You could also send in your film to be developed and even scanned if you like to. There are several companies that provide this service. Depending on the amount of scanning you plan on doing remember that a good film scanner is at least 400-600€. You can have a lab scan a LOT of film for you before you reach that money.

r

Mats

 

[Rick A]

Hi, and welcome to film photography. Lets get you started in the right direction. First, developing B&W film requires consistancy of process. Choose one film and shoot it at box speed. Choose one developer, like D-76, and find the developing time and temperture recommended. Use that combination to develope , making sure with a thermometer that your temp is correct, try to keep all your chems that temp(at least within a couple of degrees)developer is most critical of temperture. It is wise to have a darkroom manual handy at all times. Always follow the same routine to process your film, this affords consistancy. After you have become comfortable with the process, then start to experiment. I recommend you shoot and develope many, many rolls to become comfortable with your craft.

All to often, new people try one of this and one of that trying to find the one film they like. This will not get you to the desired result. Only patience and practice with one good quality film at a time will teach you how to eke out the look you are after.

Choice of chemistry and sticking to it will help with consistancy, you know what to expect, and if a problem arises, you will know what to do to fix it.

What I an trying to tell you is, it is a slow , and at times ploding, process. If you are dedicated, it will come to you. I've been at this over 40 years, and still learning. There are many parts of photography to learn, cant be done by any one person, in any one lifetime.
Continue to come here, continue to ask many questions, and learn from the best in the field(certainly not me)they hang out here too.

 

[Ben_hur]

Malta. What a place to be from. I think it is best if analog photographers thrive off the smell and the fuss of chemicals and processing. Doing great work is mostly craft. But if you just want to take the pictures and let someone else do that I would make some calls around to the photographers in Malta and find someone who is good with darkroom work and would be happy to take on some custom processing. There are several good scanners available dedicated to 35mm film and one like that would be better than a flat bed.
Dennis (not in Malta but wishing he was)

Dennis,

Malta is a nice place for tourists but it can be a pain for people with "strange" interests. The last time I saw a local photographer working with BW was in 2008, and to be honest I dont know anyone still developing film. Most of the photographers I know have converted their darkrooms to a digital studio, which is why i am doing my own developing!

R.

 

[Ben_hur]

can anyone recomment a good lab which can develop black and white for me and scan it. I would like to submit a couple of films to such a lab so that i can have a benchmark with which to compare my own developing...

 

[Mats_A]

can anyone recomment a good lab which can develop black and white for me and scan it. I would like to submit a couple of films to such a lab so that i can have a benchmark with which to compare my own developing...

This is a bit silly but the only one I have used is in California. http://www.northcoastphoto.com/
Belive it or not they were cheaper than sending for scanning to a lab in Sweden.

r

Mats

 

[BradS]

Hi, and welcome to film photography. Lets get you started in the right direction. First, developing B&W film requires consistancy of process. Choose one film and shoot it at box speed. Choose one developer, like D-76, and find the developing time and temperture recommended. Use that combination to develope , making sure with a thermometer that your temp is correct, try to keep all your chems that temp(at least within a couple of degrees)developer is most critical of temperture. It is wise to have a darkroom manual handy at all times. Always follow the same routine to process your film, this affords consistancy. After you have become comfortable with the process, then start to experiment. I recommend you shoot and develope many, many rolls to become comfortable with your craft.

All to often, new people try one of this and one of that trying to find the one film they like. This will not get you to the desired result. Only patience and practice with one good quality film at a time will teach you how to eke out the look you are after.

Choice of chemistry and sticking to it will help with consistancy, you know what to expect, and if a problem arises, you will know what to do to fix it.

What I an trying to tell you is, it is a slow , and at times ploding, process. If you are dedicated, it will come to you. I've been at this over 40 years, and still learning. There are many parts of photography to learn, cant be done by any one person, in any one lifetime.
Continue to come here, continue to ask many questions, and learn from the best in the field(certainly not me)they hang out here too.

This is excellent advice. I would only add that it goes a little faster if you keep notes about everything you do. Refer back to them when you get the prints and try to understand any relationships between what you did and the results you got.

Finally, scanning 35mm B&W negatives will only be disappointing. You will never realize the full potential with this method. Get prints made and, if you must scan, scan the prints. The difference is VERY significant.

 

[Rick A]

This is excellent advice. I would only add that it goes a little faster if you keep notes about everything you do. Refer back to them when you get the prints and try to understand any relationships between what you did and the results you got.

Finally, scanning 35mm B&W negatives will only be disappointing. You will never realize the full potential with this method. Get prints made and, if you must scan, scan the prints. The difference is VERY significant.

Did I forget to advise note taking? Whoa, thats just not like me. I always tell people to take notes on everything from the exposure to the finished print, and everything in between. Thanks for jogging my old man memory. I'll have to make a note about this so I wont forget again. Thanks BradS.

 

[Ben_hur]

Thanks Brad,

Other posts have also hinted that true b&w film does not scan properly. I am starting to think that the root of my discontent lies mostly in the scanning...why is it that b&w film does not scan properly?

 

[Rick A]

Thanks Brad,

Other posts have also hinted that true b&w film does not scan properly. I am starting to think that the root of my discontent lies mostly in the scanning...why is it that b&w film does not scan properly?

Because it is meant to be printed out using a precious metal based emulsion on paper (or metal or glass) to appreciate the full depth of the medium.

 

[BradS]

Thanks Brad,

Other posts have also hinted that true b&w film does not scan properly. I am starting to think that the root of my discontent lies mostly in the scanning...why is it that b&w film does not scan properly?

I have no idea.

However, I am very certain that this question and all matters pertaining to scanning film and so on would find a much wider audience on the APUG sister site dedicated to that type of thing. May I suggest that you ask you question at http://www.hybridphoto.com/

 

[mesh]

You've had some great advice but I'll chime in as another relative beginner... regarding dust - I hang the negs to dry in my shower and before I do, I wet all the walls and it seems to make a tangible difference. I don't allow the negs to dry for too long - overnight at most and I scan or sleeve immediately. I find doing this first thing in the morning is best - most dust tends be during the day obviously.

I know this is analogue discussion here, but I like scanning true B&W. Sure it's not as clean as 400CN say, but the scans still keep most of the character of film if scanned well. Hybrid B&W is great IMO. Not as great as wet printing of course! ;-) Frankly you need to move up to a real 35mm scanner - I'd love to say the Epsons will do it, but not even the V750 is going to really get there.