Beginner questions on 4x5 infared

ron mcelroy · Jun 5, 2005

I'm wanting to try infared with my 4x5. I use Fidelity and Riteway plastic holders now. Do I need special film holders and bellows? Also what film is available in 4x5?

Ron Mc

rbarker · Jun 5, 2005

Although I haven't looked recently, I believe Maco 820c is available in 4x5 in both aura and non-aura versions. That film, however, is soon to be replaced with a new (improved?) version. Kodak, I believe has discontinued all large format IR film.

Your existing film holders are probably OK. Urban legend (?) has it that there were two types of holders in the past - those that were IR safe, with 5 dots/dimples on the edge of the darkslide; and those that were not IR safe, having only 3 dots/dimples on the darkslides. I haven't tried to test this theory, but testing your holders with clips of 35mm IR film taped inside wouldn't be a bad idea. You can test your bellows for IR opacity at the same time.

Robert Hall · Jun 6, 2005

I have found that only wooden holders will protect the IR film. The plastic slides are quite ir safe. The plastic around the holder, however, is not. I get terrible fogging with the plastic holders.

Also, it is important to keep the area of where the darkslide comes out covered, if possible. The trap is a good source of fogging also.

Ole · Jun 6, 2005

I have had no problems with any kind of holder! But don't leave the loaded holders lying about in full sun either...

colrehogan · Jun 6, 2005

The only holder I had problems with a grafmatic which jammed on me. I lost 6 sheets of Aura because of that.

You may be able to get some Kodak 4x5 HIE off of ebay. As usual, this is caveat emptor.

jjstafford · Jun 6, 2005

Here's a bulletproof IR 4x5.
http://elearning.winona.edu/jjs/tmp/

And another modified for super-wide work. It didn't work out for land use due due to fixed focus.

http://elearning.winona.edu/jjs/tmp/printex-mod.jpg

Digidurst · Jun 6, 2005

Interesting... What else is needed to play with infared film? Filter?

colrehogan · Jun 6, 2005

For the Maco film, you need at least an R72 (Wratten 89B), Wratten 88A, or Wratten 87 to get the IR effect. Kodak film will give you this effect with only a red 25 filter.

Robert Hall · Jun 6, 2005

Ole said:
I have had no problems with any kind of holder! But don't leave the loaded holders lying about in full sun either...

I think we have stronger sun here in the states!

colrehogan · Jun 6, 2005

I haven't had any problems with the plastic holders either.

TheFlyingCamera · Jun 6, 2005

Film Holders

I just shot a bunch of Kodak HIE 4x5 in new Riteway holders (the ones with the button-locks on the darkslides). I had no fogging issues with the film at all. The problems I had were:

A: fingerprints showing up on the negatives. the Kodak is VERY sensitive to humidity and the emulsion seems to dissolve in finger oil. The film is also very curly, so it seems to provoke an inordinate amount of handling in order to get it loaded in film holders.

B: film popping out of its slot in the holder when the darkslide is withdrawn.
I don't know whether to ascribe this problem to the film, or to poor loading technique, or both. I don't have this problem with any other film, and I shoot transparency, color neg and b&w neg.

I still have four more boxes of the Kodak 4x5 IR, so if anyone could give some pointers on how to avoid the above issues, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Digidurst · Jun 6, 2005

colrehogan said:
For the Maco film, you need at least an R72 (Wratten 89B), Wratten 88A, or Wratten 87 to get the IR effect. Kodak film will give you this effect with only a red 25 filter.

Good to know, thanks

Question: Will the Wratten filters work with all infared films? It'd be nice to have one filter that would work with whatever film I had available if that makes sense.

colrehogan · Jun 6, 2005

Yes, the most versatile one is probably the Hoya R72/Wratten 89B.

This works well with the Ilford, probably pretty well with the Kodak, and works with the old & new Maco.

ron mcelroy · Jun 6, 2005

Thanks to all that have replied. I'll order some Maco and see what happens.

glbeas · Jun 6, 2005

TheFlyingCamera said:
I still have four more boxes of the Kodak 4x5 IR, so if anyone could give some pointers on how to avoid the above issues, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Get a Grafmatic, they work great for IR. I had one jam on me once, found out it was because the septums have an area near the end that is pinched to keep the film from sliding out and these septums were not pinched enough. The film slid out and blocked the Grafmatic from closing to complete the cycle. So check the septums with a spare sheet of film before you go out again colrehogan. A little tweak with a small pair of needle nose pliers will fix it.

Shmoo · Jun 6, 2005

FWIW - I've used an 87 Wratten filter and a 25 red filter on the Macophot 820 IRc (non-aura) and both filters work fine. I've tried opening up 5 stops on the 87 and end up going for 6 stops...with the red filter I tried 3 stops and ended up going 4-5 stops. It may just be my shutter's idiosyncratic behavior, though. Oh yeah...that's also at ISO 50.

colrehogan · Jun 7, 2005

Can you post one of the shots you made with the 25 red filter? I want to see how much of the IR effect you got.

Tom Stanworth · Jun 7, 2005

I dont personally havve any images to hand (I'm overseas) from 820C with a 25, but personally I tthink this film is beautiful with these moderate filters. It is great with an 87 etc if that is what you want, but the 25/29 gives lovely subtle shine/glow which is complimented by fine grain and smooth tonality in this film. I have a box of 5x4 820C and will be using it for fairly normal landscapes (woodland scenes yummy) with these more subtle effects in mind.

Shmoo · Jun 7, 2005

colrehogan said:
Can you post one of the shots you made with the 25 red filter? I want to see how much of the IR effect you got.

I posted one in the technical gallery (be kind, it was one of my first tries with this film). What I noticed with the 25 filter and the Macophot is the sky contrast isn't there. Also, my preference is that the "wood" effect is a bit more under control...which it isn't in this case. It may just be me, though.

S

colrehogan · Jun 7, 2005

Nice shot. I guess I wasn't doing something right, I never saw this sort of effect with the normal red filter. Thanks!

Digidurst · Jun 7, 2005

That IS a nice shot - thanks for sharing and inspiring the rest of us

Beginner questions on 4x5 infared

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Beginner questions on 4x5 infared

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