begin with LF

game · Mar 3, 2006

hi everyone,
I just switched from 35mm to 6x7, and am very very happywith my pentax 67. I won't make the next step just yet, but was wondering about LF.
I see a lot of secondhad cambo and sinar body for 300 euro. If i'd just add a lens then I am done right... Is it that simple????
or is there more to it....??
Thanks for explaining one or two things...
Game

Bob F. · Mar 3, 2006

Add half a dozen film holders, loupe, cable release, darkcloth for focusing, reasonably hefty tripod and some form of light meter and you are good to go. Lots of other stuff if you want, but that will do you (unless I forgot something). Might want to peruse www.lfphoto.info for the articles there.

Cheers, Bob.

game · Mar 3, 2006

most of that I allready own...
How about the brands I named... cambo and sinar... Always good? Or are there traps?

thanks!Game

Bob F. · Mar 3, 2006

In general, Cambo = lower end of the market. Sinar = the pro's workhorse.

The Cambo is perfectly OK (not used one, but reports are good) but the Sinar will be better made (and heavier) and, as it is so widely used, accessories are easily available, though the Cambo ones will be cheaper. For the same money, the Sinar may be older so you may need to factor extra wear and tear in to the equation.

I'd be happy with either in good condition for EUR 300, but I'd expect the Cambo to be in near mint condition and would be content with some cosmetic damage to the Sinar as it will be older. I have an old Arca Swiss, a Gandolfi & Shen Hao. The lfinfo site has some reviews by people far more experienced than I....

Cheers, Bob.

ggriffi · Mar 3, 2006

game said:
... Is it that simple????
or is there more to it....??

No and yes. Bob is right on with what he said, especially the link to largeformat.info that one helped me a lot when I started. Since you have most of it already you should be ok. The one thing I will add is regarding "simple". I just started with lf about 6 months ago. I came from shooting 35 which to me was all so "easy", find,focus,shoot. It's not like that with lf and at first I got frustrated, but those mistakes and problems have gone away, for the most part :confused: . I haven't use 35 since. Guess what I'm trying to say is:

C'mon in, the waters fine

g

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 3, 2006

The top end Cambo studio cameras aren't so low-end, but Sinars are a really good value right now, there is a lot of Sinar equipment around so you can easily upgrade or expand your system, and the Sinars have some handy features that you won't find on other cameras in the same current price range, like the swing/tilt calculators on the F-series and asymmetric tilts and swings on the P-series. Both series have scales and DOF calculators as well. It's certainly possible to work without these features, but they are handy once you get used to them.

game · Mar 4, 2006

Thanks guys.. I have looked at the link and indeed it's very usefull. Will spend more time on it... I quess I'll stick to pentax 6x7 for now because I do everything by bike... got no drivers licence. And LF + tripod is no fun bicycle ride. But I will get into LF one day, and better start looking around now.

I'll definitally remember the cambo vs sinar comments. Maybe when I see some Lf camera somewhere for a reasonable price I will post it and ask what you think of it. If that's ok.

Thanks Sam

Troy Ammons · Mar 4, 2006

Buy a folding camera. They are small and light. probably lighter than your P67.

The one I like is the supergraphic. Start out with that, a light meter, 5-10 film holders and one lens.

The graphic cameras were designed as press cameras and can be used hand held.

df cardwell · Mar 4, 2006

There is designed overlap between Cambo and Sinar. At a given price, they will be the same quality. The Sinar was designed with a specific purpose in mind. They are not perfect for everything. Comparing an 'f' series Sinar to a Cambo, you may very well find the Cambo much better. A 'P' series is a different story. But taking a Sinar P into the field is... well, not with a bicycle.

How you intend to make your pictures determines everything. In a studio, both Sinar and Cambo are good choices. Hiking, they are silly choices.

For many practical uses, the Pentax 6x7 IS a better choice than 4x5. Image quality rivals, or exceed 4x5 in many circumstances. The Pentax is faster to use. In rain, it is better. In a bicycle, it is better. In low light, it is better, and where there is action, it is better.

Obviously, if you want to do critical studies of architecture, 4x5 is better. If you prefer formality, 5x7 or 8x10 would be better than 4x5.

.

JBrunner · Mar 4, 2006

The right field camera (not a monorail) with its lenses and accessories will fit in a pack and is not really any heavier than some medium format systems with a bunch of lenses. You give up some things with a field camera, but you gain others, and usually an increase in portability is one of them. I was worried about the portability issue when I made the switch, but it has not proven to be much of an issue.

Joe Lipka · Mar 4, 2006

I would like to suggest that when you purchase your outfit you do not pinch pennies when it comes to film holders. One cannot have enough good film holders when doing large format work. The suggestion for half a dozen film holders is adequate for starters. If you become addicted to large format, I would suggest that 18 to 20 holders would be essential.

Bill Mitchell · Mar 4, 2006

game said:
hi everyone,
I am very very happywith my pentax 67.
Game

I can't imagine why you'd want to even think about Large Format, unless you plan to make enlargements several feet big.

Alexz · Mar 4, 2006

I can imagine easily: movements. At least, this is how I came to LF, otherwise being happy with 6x7 prior to that. Movements and the abilities they provide - this is what attracted me to LF to start with, however later (actually now) I learnt to appreciate large image on GG and considerably larger then 6x7 transparancy quality...

ras351 · Mar 4, 2006

I often end up with the difficult choice of which camera to carry, either the P67 or the 4x5 field camera. Weight is probably not a major issue as once you get to the nice wilderness tracks where they kindly provide climbing ropes, both seem to weigh more than suggested anyway. Frankly if you can lug around the Pentax 6x7 you should be able to lug around a 4x5. Bulk is an issue with the 4x5 however it seems to pack easier than the 6x7 due to the shape. Quickloads can help but ultimately a 4x5 will take up more space. I find I need a heavier, sturdier tripod for the 6x7 than the 4x5 due to the shutter on the Pentax. The Pentax lenses I own are sharper than my 4x5 lenses so after you take into account the difference in film area the maximum enlargement size is not dissimilar although the 4x5 will still have the edge. The Pentax is reasonably foolproof whereas there are multiple ways to mess up an exposure with a sheet film camera if you're not careful. Graduated filters are more difficult to use with my 4x5 on wide angle lenses due to the bed. No matter how careful I am cleaning and loading the holders I nearly always seem to end up with a dust spot somewhere on my 4x5 film.

After all that is said, usually the major decision is made due to the camera movements available with the 4x5 camera. If I won't need camera movements I'll usually take the 6x7. If I do I'll take the 4x5. If I'm likely to be rushed or shooting handheld I'll probably take the 645.

Roger.

game · Mar 5, 2006

THANKS guts for all the replies!
The main reason for me to get into 4x5 is indeed movements. the fact that it's better quality size wise than 6x7 is not that important, but a nice plus.
When I hike with my pentax 6x7 I have a suitcasew with me, I quess that will be the same with the 4x5. Hiking on holland is not like in the u.s. anyhow. We don't have mountains or hills.
We do have rain and wind. Pretty fucked up when rain hits the lens surface.
Today my pentax 67 was blown away when I did not pay attention a second... Now it has issues allover. I'm not sure if it's broken but it's not the camera it used to be. So I probably have to buy a new camera anyway. Choice is, will it be yet another 67, or a 4x5.
In bad lighting is a 4x5 workable?
I saw a sinar norma in a store, is that a good choice? It would be great to have some type suggestions.... Camera's that are good but extremally priced and suitable for dutch field work.
I don't care about heavyness, I do care about handlebilatty(sp?)

Thanks 'veryone Sam

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 5, 2006

The Norma is a very well made camera, designed more for the studio than the field, but if weight is not an issue, then you could use it wherever you're willing to take it. The parts aren't 100% compatible with later Sinars, and don't have some of the later conveniences of the P-series, but they are certainly fine cameras in themselves.

game · Mar 5, 2006

When I say I don't care about weight, I mean that the pentax 67 is perfectly fine. Twice that wieght would be Fine too. 4 times would be too much.
More important is size. I can't handdle really big stuff.

game

game · Mar 5, 2006

have been orientating a bit, and saw that there is these foldable wooden things and things on a rail.
I like the rails better on first sight. Seems a better design.....
best regards Sam

bob01721 · Mar 5, 2006

game said:
"... saw that there is these foldable wooden things and things on a rail..."

In general, the "foldable wooden things" are more compact (for carrying around) while the "things on a rail" have more movements and/or more range of movement.

JBrunner · Mar 5, 2006

game said:
have been orientating a bit, and saw that there is these foldable wooden things and things on a rail.
I like the rails better on first sight. Seems a better design.....
best regards Sam

The foldable wooden thingies are the "field cameras" I was refering to in my previous post.

jovo · Mar 5, 2006

Is there more to it? Yes, of course. Your enlarger for one thing. Contact prints from 4x5 are certainly possible, but they're not going to have much impact on your wall...5x7 seems to be the smallest size that can, minimally at best, work in that way. So...how about considering a 5x7 or 8x10 with a reducing back for 4x5? That way, you'll have a presentable image without enlarging until you acquire an enlarger that can utilize the 4x5 negative. If you already have such an enlarger...never mind...you're set...welcome to the bigger neggie!

(BTW....I, too, have and totally love my P67 with it's complement of three lenses. When I took the LF plunge and began to use my 4x5, I felt like I was having an affair with an intoxicating new mistress. I couldn't even think about the Pentax let alone use it. Now the 'heat' is cooled enough for me to realize what terrific tools both MF and LF are and can be for their respective strengths. I even love using my oldest MF camera, a Mamiya C220 for the things it does exceptionally well. Unlike women, cameras just sit patiently by awaiting, with utmost confidence, the return of the philandering photographer knowing that they're still as desirable as the day they first seduced you. The only 'loser' is my 35mm. It hasn't seen the light of day or the dark of night for years and years now. But, it's a patient critter too...maybe someday.....)

game · Mar 5, 2006

I now see the catagories. I am not sure if I need all the movements of a monorail... I don't do architecture and won't be doing that in the near future.
I am interested in full focussing control. Can a field camera do all that a monorail can as it comes to Depth of field?
I look at images and the monorail seems a better design, sturdier and more logical. the field cam seems kinda silly.
I will use a alu-suitcase anyway, wether the field cam or monorail is inside, does not really matter, right

sam

Troy Ammons · Mar 5, 2006

All I can say is with a Field camera i tend to get out and shoot more.

Ideally I would want a rail camera and a fied camera which I do have. They make good complements, IE if you were on an extended trip a folder would be a lot easier to pack and carry than a rail camera.

My vote goes for a Sinar F2 as a moderate weight rail camera and a Super graphic for a tough metal shell folding camera with a rotating back and full front movements.

game said:
I now see the catagories. I am not sure if I need all the movements of a monorail... I don't do architecture and won't be doing that in the near future.
I am interested in full focussing control. Can a field camera do all that a monorail can as it comes to Depth of field?
I look at images and the monorail seems a better design, sturdier and more logical. the field cam seems kinda silly.
I will use a alu-suitcase anyway, wether the field cam or monorail is inside, does not really matter, right

sam

Soeren · Mar 6, 2006

Hmm Are you shooting B&W or Color ? Are you developing and enlarging yourself or having it done by a lab ?
I went through that issue myself and found that the problems e.g. lab prices and enlarger size was to much at the time. I decided to stay with MF and perhaps when I get a darkroom up and running again Ill get a 6X9 cm field camera. Ok it's not the size of 4X5 inch but it has the movements and the benefits of MF rollfilm. Here in europe you you can get a 6X9 enlarger (Magnifax) fairly cheap. It wont weigh a ton and you don't have to tear down walls to install it in your darkroom. Here in DK processing prices at the labs are the same whether it's a 35mm, 120 or 4X5 inch film thus making 4X5 chromes very expensive.
I am also very satisfied with my P6X7 but I still miss the SQA-i I sold last year. I am certain Ill get another one some day.
Cheers Søren

game · Mar 6, 2006

Well I decided not to lose my 67. I love it too much.
I do want to add a 4x5 one day. I have my own darkroom, and shoot and process colour. Negatives that is. No slide film.
At this point my enlarger can take 6x7 maximum, so I have to get another one I am afraid when that time comes.
I do not process film, I have a great lab for that, I only do printing.
I anlo use contact sheets for judging, And I only print twice a year when I have a exhibition or something, I never print for myself, for my walls.
So owning a 4x5 is not enough, I realise my darkroom needs some updates but hat is of later concern.

For now I have this question:
I saw a sinar f1 with Schneider Symmar 210mm lens and suitcase and some other accesoires for 480 dolaar in a shop. Good condition.
Is that something to consider?

Thanks Sam

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