begginer having trouble printing

I am a begginer just starting out. Actually I set up a darkroom a few months ago and cannot seem to get a print to come out. Ive tried replacing various things such as my enlarger bulb I use an old omega dii. I replaced my chemicals and that didn't seem to help. I figured out I had my dektol dilution wrong which helped with developing time. However my prints are terrible and flat. The photo of my old friend is grey in real life I took a photo of it using my phone. I'm really at my wits end I've fine through a ton of paper. Anyone out there have any idea what I'm doing wrong and how to fix it?
Thanks Jesse

Are you using multigrade paper and the appropriate set of filters?

Yes. I'm using an ilford multi grade filter set. Arista rc vc paper. Safelight should be fine. I have it on a dimmer so I can keep it low

I was using the dektol diluted to 1:4 it seems to take about a minute-2 minutes to fully form the image.

well, try dektol 1:2. What filter did you use in above photo?

How old is your paper? Also, your developer could be contaminated. What you should do is start out on your highest contrast setting or filter and see if that makes crisp whites for you. If it does, that's your correction. If not, I would look into your paper, developer, or possibly your negatives. If you have old paper, you can correct the problem by adding some benzotriazole into your developer. Also, are there any light leaks? And, "safelight" is somewhat of a misnomer. If you have your paper out for a while under safelight, your safelight could also be fogging your paper. Could you post a pic of your negs from the same print?

Honestly, it looks as though you are over exposing and pulling out of the developer too early. The print itself is quite dense.

Edit... I posted this about the same time as APUGUSER Definitely not trying to steal your thunder

Thanks for the advice. You have given me something to go on. I should try a new print develop a full 2 minutes at 1:2 instead of 1:4 my developer is brand new so is the paper. The safe light is a little Kodak i put on a dimmer I turn it down low enough so I can barely see when the paper is out. I used a #2 filter

davie123 said:

I used a #2 filter

Click to expand...

Try a #4 for 20% LESS time.

For VC paper you need an OC or dark red filter. No amount of dimming a lamp with the wrong filter will avoid paper fogging. Also, a 15 watt bulb and minimum distance between safe light and working area should be no less than one meter or around four feet. Nearly all old Kodak safe lights come with an incorrect filter, usually an OA (good for super slow contact paper, Azo)or for some other application.

davie123 said:

I used a #2 filter

Click to expand...

Is that a safelight filter? Or are you referring to the contrast filter you used when printing?

What exposure time and aperture did you use?

If you take a small piece of paper, turn on the room light, turn off the room light and then develop the piece of paper how quickly does it go black?

hi dave123.
sorry to read you are having trouble
it looks to me ( guess ) like your developer is too weak and you aren't exposing enough, and you are leaving the print in the developer too long, and maybe you aren't agitating/rocking the tray .. all these things might lead to an image getting grey.

if i can suggest a few things ...
make your dektol 1:1, or 1:2, 1:4 seems a bit dilute ..
do a test strip, with no enlarger filter and have your lens stopped down 3 clicks from wide open.

have your test strip in the dektol filp it over 2 or 3 times to make sure it is fully submerged
then face UP and rock the tray for 1 fulll minute then in stop then in fix.
lights on, and look at it in room light, and pick the best exposure so the stripes in tne american flag, the folding chair and the window/door surrounds are WHITE with tone, make your exposure, and agitate again in the developer 1 full minute the same way, flip the print the same amount, face up, rock the tray.
stop/ fix and when it is in the water and rinsed, turn the lights on, and look at it in room light.
with some papers ( rc paper ), if the image comes up in about 15 seconds your exposure is close.
if the print is still grayish ( the flag, chair and door / wind surrounds aren't white ) then use a #3 filter and do the same thing, test strip, then 1 full minute agitating.
a #2 or 2 1/2 filter will make things LESS contrast, 3, 3 1/2 4, &c ADD contrast.


good luck !
john

I'm with those who think a possible fogging problem with your safelight is a good first place to look. These can be insidious. And expensive if one first tries replacing paper and chemistry, only to discover those weren't the problem. Here's a very quick test you can try next time you begin a printing session:

(1) In total darkness, remove a sheet of your standard printing paper and use scissors to cut a small two-inch square from one corner. Try to make sure this piece of paper has never been outside of its original packaging.

(2) Still in total darkness, place that small square of test paper emulsion side up dead center on your enlarger easel.

(3) Remove a coin from your pocket and place it on the center of the test paper.

(4) Estimate the number of minutes you usually have a working sheet of paper out and exposed to your safelight. Include from the moment you remove it from the packaging to the moment it goes into your normal developing solution.

(5) Turn on your safelight for that estimated interval. Do not shadow the test sheet from the safelight.

(6) Remove the coin and process/rinse/fix the test sheet using your normal procedures.

(7) Turn on the white lights and examine the test sheet. Can you see an outline of the coin?

If you can, your safelight isn't. Remember that variable contrast papers are sensitive to both blue and green wavelengths. So if the safelight is leaking any of those, or you have an unknown subtle white-light leak in your darkroom, the coin test should tell you immediately.

Note that this is not the normal standard safelight fogging test process. That requires pre-flashing the test sheet to just below threshold before testing. This version is a quick-and-dirty simplification that will tell you if you have a gross problem. And will usually do it in under five minutes.

Good luck.



Ken

Welcome to APUG

It takes a while to get consistently good prints, but once you do it will become easier and more consistent.

davie123 said:

Yes. I'm using an ilford multi grade filter set. Arista rc vc paper. Safelight should be fine. I have it on a dimmer so I can keep it low

Click to expand...

How do you know it should be fine? All safelights will fog paper if not handled correct. I have seen students putting their safelight right next to their easel thinking it won't affect paper. It does. It should be at least 4 feet from your paper and low light. Some of the red safelights are very unsafe and will fog paper in a few seconds.

I would suggest firstly printing your neg without any filters. If you neg contrast is about right you should be able to produce a decent print from it without any enlarger filtration.
So without any filtration try printing it and make a test strip to find which is the best print time.

davie123 said:

Yes. I'm using an ilford multi grade filter set. Arista rc vc paper. Safelight should be fine. I have it on a dimmer so I can keep it low

Click to expand...

This particular paper requires a dark red safelight. It will fog with OC or any safelight that gets up near light red or orange.

The paper is also pretty fast, faster than any other I've tried, which also means the safelight will kill your highlights and make the print flat quickly if it isn't the right one.

I have tested the red version of this led bulb with the paper you are using, and it costs less than $4 and is safe.

Do a paper test first. Turn off your safelight - pull out a sheet or just tear a piece of a sheet off, put it on your main workbench, place a coin or something heavy over it and turn the safelight on. Wait for 10 minutes and develop the paper (with safelight off if you can manage).

See if there's a difference between the exposed part of the paper and the covered one.

Good luck!
Ben

Here is my Safelight. It has a red 15 watt bulb in it with a dimmer.

I was using an orange Safelight fixture as you said it was blowing out my prints. Switched to this little one someone gave me

That appears to me to not be a safelight.

Although safelights aren't particularly powerful, it is their colour that matters the most. Safelights restrict the frequency of the light emitted to colours that the paper is not (very) sensitive to.

That appears to me to be just a mostly red bulb. Mostly, in that there is also a fair amount of blue (and possibly green) light there too.

The blue and green light fogs the paper.

If the color in that is similar to real life, I suspect it is the source of your trouble. A dark red safelight is a really deep dark red, a color where our eyes don't see as well and makes the darkroom seem a lot darker than an amber or OC or light red. Like looking through a #25 red filter if you have one of those.

I could write some more about printing with this paper, it behaves a bit differently than other VC papers... but I don't want to confuse the issue here with other things. After you've got the safelight sorted out, try to make a few prints, and do try a grade 3 or 4 filter....

davie123 said:

Here is my Safelight. It has a red 15 watt bulb in it with a dimmer.

I was using an orange Safelight fixture as you said it was blowing out my prints. Switched to this little one someone gave me

Click to expand...

If you do not wish to perform a standard exposure and development fog test using a coin, there is an even quicker and easier test you can try. It's not as accurate as a paper-based fog test since it only targets your safelight. But it is still capable of detecting potential problems. Others here are very familiar with this:

(1) Locate from your collection a normally recorded CD or DVD computer disc.

(2) Close up your darkroom as you normally would. Turn off all lights (even power strip LEDs), then turn on only your safelight.

(3) Observe the light coming from your safelight as it reflects from the recorded side of your CD/DVD. Up close or further away does not matter.

(4) Mostly you will see only the primary safelight color. But also look very carefully for any faint, but usually reasonably distinct, bands of blue and/or green color in the reflection. They can be relatively narrow, or quite broad. But they are almost always faint. Sometimes at the seeming limits of visibility.

If you see any blue and/or green, your safelight isn't. Whether those colors are causing fogging is another question because you weren't testing specifically for fogging. But they could be.

People who discover that their safelights are causing paper fogging are almost universally shocked and surprised. They can't believe the bright red (or brighter orange) they see could contain any other color. But the truth is, they almost always do. Too faint for you to see visually. But easily a problem for your paper over the time it's left out exposed.

If you suspect fogging, try this. Using fresh paper that has never been removed from its original packaging, make a fully processed test print normally under your regular safelight. Then simply turn off that safelight and make the exact same print in total darkness. Then compare the two.

Ken

Wow thanks for the information. The safe light issue never crossed my mind as it was given to me by an old photographer friend. I just assumed it was proper. I just ordered a correct one. It makes sense that my safe light was a problem since every print I made no matter what my variables were was flat. You guys have helped me more in two hours than anyone has in months. Keep the information flowing. What else should I know about the paper?

A couple of final thoughts...

Don't simply assume that just because we think the problem might be safelight related, that it is safelight related. You really must do some testing to know for sure. If you don't test, and just order a new safelight, and your prints are still flat, then it's no different than throwing away perfectly good paper and chemistry that wasn't the problem either. Those can all be very expensive false assumptions.

And also don't assume, as is normal in human nature, that if the safelight is causing fogging, that it is the only cause of fogging. It's very possible that you may have multiple sources of cause contributing to the problem.

All I'm suggesting is to keep an open mind and be methodical and careful. Control the process. Never let it control you.



Ken

I always suspect that beginners pull their prints too soon before they have a chance to build sufficient contrast. This has been discussed on several threads. Search for "development to completion." Don't watch the clock but do watch the print. For most subjects you need to get the print partially out of the linear portion of the H&D curve and onto the shoulder. Only then will you get good blacks.

There is at least one video of Edward Weston showing a student how to make a print. There is no clock in the darkroom. Weston is however carefully watching the print develop.