Beattie Intenscreen vs SatinSnow?

shyguy · Jul 5, 2005

I am using a Beattie Intenscreen, I switched perhaps 2 years ago from the factory Ground Glass on my Linhof 4x5 Technikardan 45s.

As I read through these forums I realize there is representation from Satinsnow.

Could anyone please tell me the pros and cons of possible switching from the Beattie to the SatinSnow?

S.

Dave Parker · Jul 5, 2005

Shyguy,

The Beattie, is a enhanced viewing screen, the Satin Snow is a True ground glass, we have a considerable difference in cost as opposed to what Beattie does.

Is there a reason your considering changing?

This would help me or many of the users of our screens answer your question, with a bit more information.

Thanks for the inquiry.

Dave

papagene · Jul 5, 2005

For the money... SatinSnow without a doubt. I enjoy using one on my 4x5 and will be ordering one for my 5x7 soon.
But since you already have the Beattie, why are you considering the switch? Has it not performed up to your expectations?

gene

shyguy · Jul 5, 2005

on occasion I notice the frensel lines. They tend to annoy me. There still seems to be falloff the further away from the center. I realize this is better with the Beattie than the Linhof GG. I use the 110 quite a bit, with a centerfilter, and i guess i am hoping for even brighter. Perhaps it's not meant to be. I do use a range of lenses from 72 to 400, and i mix it up quite a bit

I am basically just curious, as i have heard so many good things about the satinsnow, i wondered if i was missing out on something.

S.

noseoil · Jul 5, 2005

From what I have read, I would not consider the Beattie as an upgrade from my normal screen. The problem I have here is heat. The micro-matrix in the Beattie was a wax base (please correct me if I'm wrong) and it will melt in the temps here. The "extreme" temperatures here normal this time of year. Its about 110f now, too hot to go under the dark cloth for me. tim

Jorge · Jul 5, 2005

noseoil said:
From what I have read, I would not consider the Beattie as an upgrade from my normal screen. The problem I have here is heat. The micro-matrix in the Beattie was a wax base (please correct me if I'm wrong) and it will melt in the temps here. The "extreme" temperatures here normal this time of year. Its about 110f now, too hot to go under the dark cloth for me. tim

You are talking about the Maxwell screen. The beatti uses a fresnel lens and a coated glass. Yes, the wax is the problem with those screens, you are not the only one who has complained about this.

hortense · Jul 5, 2005

shyguy said:
... There still seems to be falloff the further away from the center. ...
S.

I too note the "falloff the further away from the center". My new Satin Snow is brighter than my Beatie.

shyguy · Jul 5, 2005

noseoil said:
From what I have read, I would not consider the Beattie as an upgrade from my normal screen. The problem I have here is heat. The micro-matrix in the Beattie was a wax base (please correct me if I'm wrong) and it will melt in the temps here. The "extreme" temperatures here normal this time of year. Its about 110f now, too hot to go under the dark cloth for me. tim

As Jorge said, that's not a problem with this brand.

Peter De Smidt · Jul 5, 2005

Jorge said:
You are talking about the Maxwell screen. The beatti uses a fresnel lens and a coated glass. Yes, the wax is the problem with those screens, you are not the only one who has complained about this.

Are you sure that you're not talking about the BosScreen, which uses a wax layer between to pieces of clear glass? I'm not aware that the Maxwell screen uses wax.

Beattie and Maxwell screens are a combination of a ground glass plus a fresnel lens, which evens out the light. Fresnels, though, are most effect with the specific focal length taking lens that they were designed for, and they give less good results with other focal length taking lenses. The BosScreen and the Satin Snow focusing screens don't have built in fresnels.

I've used high quality acid etched "ground" glass (Sinar), low quality groud glass (Toho), Linhof super screen (plastic with built in fresnel), BosScreen (wax), Beattie intenscreen plus (in my Rollei), and the Maxwell.

For 4x5 work with lenses from 110mm to 600mm my favorite is the Maxwell. It's bright, even, and easy to focus, although it should be for how much it costs. The Beattie works well in my Rollei TLR. I've heard the some people don't like'm, but it's an order of magnitude better than my original Rollei screen. I'm not a fan of the BosScreen, as I had focussing problems with mine. The linhof screen was ok, but it really needed the clear glass cover plate for rigidity, which I didn't have.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd try the Satin Snow screen first. It's sounds high quality and the price is right.

jovo · Jul 5, 2005

Peter De Smidt said:
, I'd try the Satin Snow screen first. It's sounds high quality and the price is right.

The Satinsnow gg is so incredibly modest in price that to NOT try it yourself would be a personal disservice. You could see a really bad movie with popcorn and a soda or buy TWO of them for the same price. I'd skip the flick!

Jorge · Jul 5, 2005

YOu are right Peter, it is the bosscreen.

SLNestler · Jul 6, 2005

The Bosscreen is nice until it melts; not suitable for warm climates. The Maxwell is amazing, and expensive. The Satin Snow is a beautiful ground glass at a beautiful price; a real winner.
Steven

jjstafford · Jul 6, 2005

It rather surpises me that LF photographers need a bright screen; you know what you are framing, and you can use your loupe to examine the edges. You can see what you need to see a bit at at time and take your head out from underneath the cloth if you feel insecure. It ain't rocket science. Trust your experience. Bright Screens are for novices.

shyguy · Jul 6, 2005

jjstafford said:
It rather surpises me that LF photographers need a bright screen; you know what you are framing, and you can use your loupe to examine the edges. You can see what you need to see a bit at at time and take your head out from underneath the cloth if you feel insecure. It ain't rocket science. Trust your experience. Bright Screens are for novices.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I would have to say you are quite wrong however. Like my mother said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all

Jorge · Jul 6, 2005

I guess I have been a novice for 20 years......mercy me!

KenM · Jul 6, 2005

Yikes, the more light on the GG the better! Besides, it's a pain having to move around under the dark cloth...

Regarding the Maxwell screen, anyone have an idea of the cost? I'm hesitant to get one, since the combination fresnel/GG that came with my Master Tech was a piece of garbage - it had quite a bow in it, and the grooves (regardless of what Bob Salomon says) are incredibly intrusive when using wide angle lenses, even with a focusable loupe. I use a SatinSnow GG right now, and I like it, but it would be nice to have some sort of fresnel that would even out illumination for the shorter focal lens lenses.

Anyone here have a Maxwell screen?

roteague · Jul 6, 2005

jjstafford said:
It rather surpises me that LF photographers need a bright screen; you know what you are framing, and you can use your loupe to examine the edges.

I would have to disagree with you, strongly. The majority of my images are taking when the light is changing fast - at or near sunrise/sunset - which means I don't often have the luxury spending 5 or 10 minutes looking through the groundglass. I just dropped a 30x40 print at the framer today, an image that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been able to quickly frame the composition - the image is in the Standard Gallery, titled "Angry Sea".

jjstafford · Jul 6, 2005

shyguy said:
I'm sorry you feel that way. I would have to say you are quite wrong however. Like my mother said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all

What did I say that was so objectionable? I made a simple personal observation. To say "if you don't have anything nice to say..." is just an effort to encourage mediocracy. You stepped into it. Don't blame me.

jjstafford · Jul 6, 2005

roteague said:
I would have to disagree with you, strongly. The majority of my images are taking when the light is changing fast - at or near sunrise/sunset - which means I don't often have the luxury spending 5 or 10 minutes looking through the groundglass. I just dropped a 30x40 print at the framer today, an image that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been able to quickly frame the composition - the image is in the Standard Gallery, titled "Angry Sea".

That makes no sense at all. You should know the frame. You can look outside of the camera/ground glass. Sorry, but I can't understand why your are so groundglass handicapped. Don't lay the blame on me. Look to yourself.

Gim · Jul 7, 2005

jjstafford said:
That makes no sense at all. You should know the frame. You can look outside of the camera/ground glass. Sorry, but I can't understand why your are so groundglass handicapped. Don't lay the blame on me. Look to yourself.

I may be missing something here but under real low light conditions I would think a brighter GG would be a help to focus. I just order a Satinsnow GG for this purpose. Maybe I'm just nuts.

Jim

Jorge · Jul 7, 2005

Perhaps there is a reason why there are no pictures by this guy on the galleries Jim......or maybe you are nuts...

roteague · Jul 7, 2005

jjstafford said:
Sorry, but I can't understand why your are so groundglass handicapped.

Because sometimes I can't see the image in the ground glass. When I use my Schneider 135mm 5.6 lens I have no problems at all - I can even see the image without the darkcloth - but when I use my Nikkor 90mm F8, I can bareley see it with the darkcloth. Add the warm polarizing filter I sometimes use and it becomes even more difficult. But, not to worry, the 90 is getting replaced with a Scheider SuperSymar XL 80mm 4.5 next week - should be a lot brighter.

David H. Bebbington · Jul 7, 2005

My 2 cents worth (after 35 years' view camera work):
I LOVE ... Beattie screens and pop-up hoods. Like "roteague", in fact even more so living in the UK with its changeable weather, I sometimes need to work fast.
I HATE ... focusing cloths. I have one but seldom use it in the studio, since the camera screen is out of the light and I can see fine without. Outdoors a focusing cloth is a damn nuisance, particularly in hot weather or a wind, and it's one more thing to juggle with in addition to an exposure meter and film holder. I never take the cloth out of doors (if I'm using a camera without a pop-up hood, it will be a Sinar, to the back of which I can clip a spare bellows as a viewing hood).
I PARTICULARLY HATE loupes - I just can't understand what they're for (apart from viewing processed film). People spend a lot of money on them and get a perfect sharp flat-field view of the grain of the focusing screen! The purpose of the focusing screen is to tell whether something is in focus or not - not whether it is sharp. Any good lens which is in focus and in coverage will be sharp, but you can't judge sharpness on a ground-glass screen, you need an optical bench where you can view an aerial image.

I appreciate that for esthetic/philosophical reasons some people like to commune with their image under the dark cloth for long periods - each to his/her own, but you won't catch me doing it!

Ole · Jul 7, 2005

Any screen will do with big old f:4.5 or f:3.5 lenses - sometimes I don't even use the Linhof folding hood because the image is bright enough without.

But my 121/8 wide-angle is in a shutter which won't open up to more than f:10, and then I need a dark cloth. Even then it's way too darl in the corners, and a brighter GG would be great. Not so much for focusing as for framing. Quite often I find myself in bright sunlight with the camera, taking a picture of something in deep shade. That's when you learn to appreciate bright GG's and bright lenses.

SLNestler · Jul 7, 2005

KenM said:
Regarding the Maxwell screen, anyone have an idea of the cost?

They finally have a website:
http://www.mattclara.com/maxwell/index.html#Screens

The cost of a 4X5, I believe is somewhere between $200 and $300. It would be interesting to test it side by side with the Satin Snow.

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