Beater RF

If you do get the excellent Canon GIII 17 be aware of one thing that is very important. Cock the shutter and, as you are looking at the front of the lens, turn the aperture ring back and forth. If the aperture opens and closes WITHOUT hesitation you are OK. But if the tiniest bit of oil is on those blades you are in for trouble. This camera is especially vulnerable to this aperture blade hang-up, so beware.

I have taken apart several and it is impossible for me to service one without destroying the GIII 17 electronic capability because the wires are amazingly close together and without any 'leg room', so I have to cut them in order to get the shutter/lens mechanism separated from the body. That means this: when I am finished there is NO meter and NO X sync, although the aperture now is excellent and the glass elements are pristine. It thus becomes a stellar 'available light' machine.

The Olympus XA has a major limiting factor: there is no manual exposure provision, although a somewhat 'workaround' can be obtained with film speed and backlight provisions. Also, that shutter button is prone to 'delay' and that delay is not necessarily caused by dirt or debris. It seems, at times, to be a 'computer chip' problem that has never been satisfactorily explained to me.

The Olumpus RC or RD gets my immediate approval. Those are great cameras with few problems. But watch for fungus on that front element. In fact, I would advise ALWAYS putting a clean skylight filter on ANY RF lens, primarily because it cannot be easily removed from the body, (unless you are talking about Canon 7 or such).

But like all mechanical things, test, even without film. Be sure to put on Bulb setting with open aperture and, with opened back. fire at a well lit area to see how clear that glass REALLY is from BOTH the front and rear. You would even be advised to use a maginfying glass to closely inspect from both the front and rear while that lens is fired on bulb. (You might not like what you see but at that critical level, some dust problem can be largely ignored.)

elekm: I think that by 'beater' he means one that has been well used, thus cheap. But, today, one can find surprising buys from even 'low mileage' cameras. Look, search, try, don't get frustrated. - David Lyga

Thank you David, very useful information on what to look for when buying a camera. The giii I bought knowing it had a sticky shutter. The aperture blades are clean but the shutter blades are not. No problem as a friend has the tools to remove the ring holding in the front element. I'm going in that way and using some ronsonol to clean up the shutter.

Sorry for the confusion over "beater". I meant merely a rangefinder that was well built and could take some abuse. Not that I plan on abusing it mind you but things happen.

I have an XA on its way to me. I'll snag a RC or RD as the chance arises.

Yes, that front element is easy to remove. But underneath that element is a second element that must be unscrewed, also, And that is a bit harder because there is no spanner wrench slots to turn that disk with. I usually drill tiny holes into that metal disk and then unscrew it. Doing that, you will finally expose the shutter and aperture blades. The rear lens elements (two) are also removable and doing that is probably the most sensible thing because drying will be far quicker and you get to clean those elements' innards.

But, watch out and be careful: I honestly do not know if you are doing the right thing here. Certainly, the Ronsonol will dluite that grease but, WATCH OUT: that fluid will also travel down onto the helicoid and that means trouble because that helicoid (which determines focus) is full of grease and you do not want ANY grease coming to touch those aperture blades (which are guided by a very delicate wire spring. All I can say is 'only a few drops' onto those shutter blades and let it dry thoroughly (after firing a few times to get it worked in) before replacing the two front lens elements and rear elements.

NB: to remove the ENTIRE lens/shutter assembly in the GIII 17 one has to use a spanner wrench on the large disk surrounding the REAR lens set. IMPORTANT: to loosen this large disk one has to turn that large disk CLOCKWISE which is counter to what is usual. After many turns, the lens/shutter assembly will be able to be removed, BUT...the wires are so closely tied to that assembly that you will not be able to remove it more than about one inch. THAT means that you cannot work on that assembly unless you cut those wires (or use amazing dexterity to cut, then resolder those damn wires).

ALL smaller screws and disks turn normally to loosen (ie, turn counter clockwise to loosen).

If you have questions, contact me either PM or 215.569.4949 - David Lyga

my favorint of the fixed lens rangefinders is the canon ql17 giii. Youve held one so you know. The fit and finish of this camera is ecxellent. Really a step above the others.

The Olympus 35RC is another one of my favorites. its smaller than the canon with a limited shutter speed but a nice sharp lens.

The Oly 35RD is nice on paper, but it has similar shutter problems to the canon, and it is hard to service.

The Oly 35SP is larger than the canon, but is probably the most fully featured of any of the bunch.

I have the XA in hand and I've got to say, the rangefinder patch is rather small and even after cleaning not that bright compared to the Canonet. Super small camera though.

There are other cameras if you want a user with different limitation and features for low light...

e.g. the Minolta hi-matic 7s has

maybe good - CLC metering (back lighting should be ok automatically)
good - program from 1/250@/22 to 1/15@/1.8 (i.e. not shutter priority)
bad - a lock below 1/15 in programmed mode, so you need to switch to manual, not fast... and the metering stops at 1/15@/1.8 but some of the others will force you to select a slower speed.
good - a EV display in manual
compromise - a max ISO of 800
bad - mercury battery dependency
bad - no depth of field scale(!)
compromise - finding one might be difficult though.

So in low light (~1/15@/1.8) forget about programmed, but some of the others are worse, at least the Olympus SP and Minolta 7s allow a meter reading in manual.

The other Minolta Hi-Matics (models) are (each) different.

If you are picky you need to down load each cameras manual, and then borrow the ones you might like - to try.

Reopening this thread, I might shy away from electronic cameras. I have a little Olympus XA. It functions fine, although the meter needle is sluggish. I've read reports from others who say that the electronics aren't hardy.

I think the Olympus 35 RC is an excellent camera. The Canonet GIII QL17 also is a nice camera, but they do seem to suffer from the sticky aperture and frozen shutter blade issue.

If you can keep spare batteries, the Konica C35 Automatic is a fine little camera, although there is no provision for manual exposure. Same goes for the Rollei XF35, which also has a deserved reputation for having a fine lens attached to a dodgy rangefinder mechanism that seems to want to fall out calibration.

If you go earlier, Petri made a very durable rangefinder - the Petri 35 (Color Corrected), although it's a bit heavy and has no meter.

Konica's earliest rangefinders (I, II and III) are all excellent. The III is a heavy camera.

I really like the folding Zeiss Ikon Contessa, as well as the various Kodak Retinas. But I think that I'm venturing beyond the scope of the original thread.

Well I ended up selling my XA after having it for a few weeks. The rangefinder patch was faded making it hard to take portrait and street photos. However I did run one roll of Superia 200 through it twice for some double exposure fun. I can tell the camera takes very detailed photos, that lens is quite sharp.

I know this an old thread at this point, but the OP may want to try something like a Olympus stylus with the fixed 35mm f2.8 or a yashica T4. I've used a bunch of the cameras discussed as the camera-I carry-with-me-all-the-time and I was disappointed with the reliablity. I suspect that any major brand point and shoot with a fixed lens will be pretty good.