Be Careful What You Wish For: The Horseman Saga So Far

Stephen Power · Sep 18, 2020

I spent a couple of months waiting to buy my recently acquired Horseman 970. I had to make sure that the photography job I was waiting on came to fruition and then I spent another age deciding which model to buy. In the end, I decided to be frugal, just in case I didn't use it much.

I bought the oldest (970) and least expensive one on eBay, although it had a pristine lens and 2 film backs. Also, with shipping costs and import duties, I spent about €450, which is not inconsiderable.

So, far, while it looks very cool I'm having some problems. It wasn't focusing to infinity until I accidentally sheared off a post at the front (see another thread) and now I think there is a light leak issue, caused by the roll film back coming loose.

Plus, I seem to be constantly forgetting to wind the film on. The roll I processed today has 2 blank frames (I have no idea why that happened), a double-image of this interesting old boat in the attached shot and light leaks at the bottom of some frames.

So far, 4 rolls with problems. Don't get me wrong, I know it's early days. I have been a pro photographer for nearly 40 years and have probably shot 500 000 frames, if not more. But, I am beginning to wonder if the issues are me or the camera. I hope it's me. That said, when it works (and I work with it) the results have been very good

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BrianShaw · Sep 18, 2020

Welcome to the world of old and/or unfamiliar cameras!

“Shearing off a post” to get infinity focus seems extreme. Are you thinking that the camera never focused to infinity before you acquired it?

Stephen Power · Sep 18, 2020

BrianShaw said:
Welcome to the world of old and/or unfamiliar cameras!

“Shearing off a post” to get infinity focus seems extreme. Are you thinking that the camera never focused to infinity before you acquired it?

I didn't do it deliberately. There's another thread in this section about it, where I was asking about it not focusing to infinity. I had seen advice elsewhere about loosening a post that would adjust the rails. I probably got the wrong post (still can't see the right one) and it sheared off when I tried to turn the screw. But, it does (now) focus to infinity.

BrianShaw · Sep 18, 2020

BrianShaw said:
Welcome to the world of old and/or unfamiliar cameras!

“Shearing off a post” to get infinity focus seems extreme. Are you thinking that the camera never focused to infinity before you acquired it?

Cancel question. Saw your other thread... sounds like a run of bad luck. Hope things Improve for you soon!

Dan Daniel · Sep 18, 2020

Are you leaving the dark slide out between shots? I wonder if that would help, keeping it in. Then of course you need to remember to remove it for a shot. Two of the frames look like more than just a double exposure, more of an extended exposure. As if the dark slide was pulled before closing down the lens for framing (assuming view camera type operation) or the shutter lagging before closing.

All of the rangefinder and such issues are out of my experience with this type of camera. I've used 4x5 view cameras, Horseman VH as a 6x9 view camera. Never used a view camera with rangefinder as a rangefinder camera.

Stephen Power · Sep 18, 2020

Dan Daniel said:
Are you leaving the dark slide out between shots? I wonder if that would help, keeping it in. Then of course you need to remember to remove it for a shot. Two of the frames look like more than just a double exposure, more of an extended exposure. As if the dark slide was pulled before closing down the lens for framing (assuming view camera type operation) or the shutter lagging before closing.

Ah, the dark slide...Sin scéal Eile (shin-scale-ella) as they say in Ireland...that's another story. I ruined 4 images on the first roll and a couple of the second, because I forgot to remove it before the shots! So, on this last excursion, yesterday, I thought I'd leave it out completely after the first shot. So, you may have a point.

Before reading your post, I was struggling with why the 'blank' frames are so badly over exposed. I'm wondering now if, as you say, it was extended exposure. I didn't use the ground glass, so there there was no reason to leave the shutter fully open. But, maybe I did....

Dan Daniel · Sep 18, 2020

Play with the shutter to make certain that it closing smoothly, snapping closed. Not sure what the exposure time was on those frames. But sometimes the older leaf shutters simply hang or take their time closing, especially at slower speeds. And this can be erratic.

Stephen Power · Sep 18, 2020

Dan Daniel said:
Play with the shutter to make certain that it closing smoothly, snapping closed. Not sure what the exposure time was on those frames. But sometimes the older leaf shutters simply hang or take their time closing, especially at slower speeds. And this can be erratic.

I had the very same thought and have made myself a coffee while I try it. The shutter speed is currently set to 1/60th and it was a gloriously sunny day here yesterday. So, I'm fairly sure I didn't go slower than 1/30th.

trick · Sep 18, 2020

Stephen Power said:
Ah, the dark slide...Sin scéal Eile (shin-scale-ella) as they say in Ireland...that's another story. I ruined 4 images on the first roll and a couple of the second, because I forgot to remove it before the shots! So, on this last excursion, yesterday, I thought I'd leave it out completely after the first shot. So, you may have a point.

I feel your pain here - I had a similar experience when I first got my Cambo Wide 470. The first roll had a bunch of bad exposures (the aperture lever is easy to knock), black frames and double exposures. What worked for me was writing a check-list and taping it to the back of my film holder for a few shoots. "Remove the dark slide, idiot" was definitely one of them.

Stephen Power · Sep 18, 2020

trick said:
What worked for me was writing a check-list and taping it to the back of my film holder for a few shoots. "Remove the dark slide, idiot" was definitely one of them.

Believe it or not, I had the same thought yesterday, but was in too much of a rush to leave the house, so didn't do it. I'm doing it right now.

@Dan Daniel Checked the shutter speeds and they seem to be OK with no sticking points.

MattKing · Sep 18, 2020

My wife tells me that it takes 40 repetitions before an action becomes a habit.
Patience!

Donald Qualls · Sep 18, 2020

My experience is that the more unfamiliar cameras you use, the fewer times you'll screw up with each one. I can tell you that it helps to have used cameras with no double exposure protection for decades, in terms of avoiding double exposures. Dark slide discipline is just something you have to ingrain.

itsdoable · Sep 18, 2020

My rule with 120 backs on these cameras (Horseman, Linhof, etc...)

- Always put the dark slide in, as there are too many ways that you can inadvertently expose the film and get that black frame.

- Always wind the film after an exposure.

If you do that, you should be able to catch most issues.

reddesert · Sep 18, 2020

Agree with itsdoable's recommendations of using the darkslide and winding the film on. Tie a brightly colored string or shoelace through the darkslide handle so that it's a reminder to pull it before exposure. If you make an exposure with the darkslide in and then realize it, you can just pull the slide and make another.

Stephen Power · Sep 18, 2020

Thanks @itsdoable and @reddesert I'll go back to putting the dark slide in after every exposure. I was going to say there's nowhere on the handle for the ribbon, but there is a small cutaway in it, so I'll tie something through that.

I was pretty sure I was winding on after each exposure, and I was even going back over my shots yesterday, to make sure I was on 4 and not 3. But, there are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count; and those that can't count.

Be Careful What You Wish For: The Horseman Saga So Far

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