Bay 1 filter glass fell out!

rdtaylor_sea · Aug 15, 2011

Just received a response to my email to B+W. According to them, there are retaining rings in the bay filters. I am beginning to wonder if B&H is selling counterfeit filters.

BTW - the email said that B+W is discontinuing the bay filters sizes.

henryp · Aug 15, 2011

First, we are certainly not knowingly selling counterfeit filters. Second, any customer who recently purchased a B+W filter from us and wishes to exchange or return it is welcome to do so, simply by contacting our customer service.

henryp · Aug 15, 2011

rdtaylor_sea said:
Just received a response to my email to B+W. According to them, there are retaining rings in the bay filters. I am beginning to wonder if B&H is selling counterfeit filters.
BTW - the email said that B+W is discontinuing the bay filters sizes.

You'd be doing me, and everyone in this thread, a favor if you'd take a moment to send a copy of your question and their reply to me. My email is in my sig. Thanks in advance.

rdtaylor_sea · Aug 15, 2011

Henry - I want to make it clear to everyone one this thread that I was not suggesting that B&H is knowingly selling fake filters. If anyone took my comments as such I apologize. The filters came in the new, blue B&W Professional packaging with seals intact. The filters did not have internal retaining rings, however, and the glass fell out shortly after opening. According to an email that I received from Schneider Kreuznach, there are retaining rings in all of the Bay filters. Since the filters had the correct, sealed packing, I was wondering if B&H had unknowingly received and shipped some fake ones.

To everyone - I sent an email to B&H customer service and they are exchanging my filters for new ones, and are paying for shipping. They are my primary source of photo gear and I will certainly continue to use them.

Henry - I will send you my question to SK and their response.

Klainmeister · Aug 15, 2011

There's also a thread started on photo.net that speaks of a fella who just realized his also has glue instead of a retaining ring.

Interesting stuff.

Pgeobc · Aug 15, 2011

Well, there is a valid, third option here that allows everybody to cool down.

It is probable that all of them are valid B+W filters, but that B+W inadvertently omitted the retaining rings. In other words, a simple manufacturing defect in this lot. My packaging was correct, guys. I looked at mine and it is a Bay-II instead of a Bay-III. However, when I went and checked my other Bay filters, I found that the factory markings are always on the reatining rings for these Bay series. So, if one accidentally omits the ring, the lens will fall out, there will be no factory markings, etc. In addition, the stuff that looks like bathtub caulking is likely not a glue, but a thin cushion to prevent the glass from cracking as the ring is tightened down.

Yep, I'm the guy over at photo.net

I'm going to contact B+W and see if I can get a retaining ring and install it myself. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't. In any event, B&H has an excellent customer service department.

michaelbsc · Aug 15, 2011

Pgeobc said:
It is probable that all of them are valid B+W filters, but that B+W inadvertently omitted the retaining rings. In other words, a simple manufacturing defect in this lot.

At the price differential between a real B&W filter and a knockoff I would put my money on the supply chain getting usurped. That's the simplest most likely explanation in my mind.

I would really be surprised if it is a true manufacturing defect. Manufacturing controls for stuff like this are just too simple to put in place. They're bound to already be there decades ago.

And almost assuredly all the major retail houses deal with distributors rather than manufacturers. So if the packaging is a decent counterfit how would the retailer know.

The problem for us is that the distribution channel is hidden from us, so we cannot rant at them directly. All we can do is complain to the retailer, when it really isn't their fault. They're just the poor sap left holding the bag. (And eating the expense! The counterfiter has already scooped his profit.)

rdtaylor_sea · Aug 15, 2011

Pgeobc is likely correct. It's probably a bad batch that was inadvertently sent out of the B+W factory without rings.

In retrospect, my comment about B&H possibly selling counterfeit goods was inappropriate and poorly worded. I have, and will continue to, buy most of my photographic needs from B&H. As I wrote previously, they have offered to replace the filters and are paying my shipping costs.

I certainly apologize to B&H.

Rob

henryp · Aug 16, 2011

rdtaylor_sea said:
Henry - I want to make it clear to everyone one this thread that I was not suggesting that B&H is knowingly selling fake filters. If anyone took my comments as such I apologize.

SNIP

Henry - I will send you my question to SK and their response.

Thank you. I never thought you ere accusing us, and it is possible we unknowingly and unwittingly received non-kosher B+W filters. I appreciate your clarification here, your continued confidence in us and your assistance in getting to the proverbial bottom of this. No apology was necessary.

Pgeobc said:
Yep, I'm the guy over at photo.net

I hate to seem like the kind of guy who needs his hand held, but I just spent half an hour in photo.net's Unified Forum and their Accessories forum and cannot find this. A pointer would be appreciated. TIA.

benjiboy · Aug 16, 2011

The question is, where do B & H buy their B+W filter stocks from ? if not directly from the manufacturers who say they don't make filters without retaining rings, are they being conned by their suppliers ?

Nicholas Lindan · Aug 16, 2011

I'd place a bet on it being an omission at B+W. There is no reason a counterfeiter would have omitted the retaining rings, especially if the ring is where the logo goes. After all they wouldn't be shy about putting a B+W logo on the box ...

I just looked at some new plain-old-52mm B+W's and they don't use front retaining rings: the 'retaining ring' at the front is one piece with the filter main ring; there is a press-in ring (? - could be screw-in but there are no notches for a wrench) at the back that retains the filter glass. It could be the Bay filters were sent out without front rings because the assembly line is now used to the front-ringless new design. I imagine Bay II/III filters are a pretty low volume item.

OTOH, I have a nagging feeling I have a filter somewhere where the glass is held in without a front ring - instead there are just three dots of glue holding it in and there is a gap between the glass and the main ring, as if something is missing. I have a memory of looking at this and thinking "How cheap can they get these days?" It can't be a Bay filter as I don't have any Bay filters.

Pgeobc · Aug 16, 2011

Henry--

"I hate to seem like the kind of guy who needs his hand held, but I just spent half an hour in photo.net's Unified Forum and their Accessories forum and cannot find this. A pointer would be appreciated. TIA. "

I posted it under the one listed as Filters, Bags, and Tripods (or something like that). It was moving down the list fairly fast and may be gone by now. Hope that helps.

Maybe this link will help: http://photo.net/filters-bags-tripods-accessories-forum/00ZAzF

michael9793 · Aug 16, 2011

BH stands by there product. I would call them tell them what is going on and that you know these filters have retaining rings and yours are glued. if they don't stand by their product then they are buying knock offs and trying to sell them to us so they can make a better profit. But I have never had a problem sending anything back as long as you talk to there customer service department.

Monito · Aug 16, 2011

michael9793 said:
BH stands by there product. I would call them tell them what is going on and that you know these filters have retaining rings and yours are glued. if they don't stand by their product then they are buying knock offs and trying to sell them to us so they can make a better profit. But I have never had a problem sending anything back as long as you talk to there customer service department.

Please read the thread. It is way ahead of you.

jeffreyg · Aug 16, 2011

I have a number of B+W filters that I use with bayonet adapters and have used them that way for many years with no problems or loose glass. They all say made in Germany. I also have a couple that are 93mm and a Heliopan 93mm. I just reinspected them and all including the Heliopan are constructed the same way. I compared them to a couple of Tiffen filters and the difference is that the retaining ring for the Tiffen filters have slits for a spanner wrench. My Hasselblad bayonet filters also have the slits. Could it be that B+W makes a different attachment for the threaded and bayonet filters? Most likely they would really be the one to answer.

Since it appears that B&H will be making good on the defective filter, take advantage of their goodwill. You might consider what I do with the adapters since at least when I bought my filters some of what I wanted were not readily available in the b mount and those that were cost more.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Kc2edh · Sep 1, 2011

Just an update, I contacted B&H a few weeks ago and they sent me a prepaid sticker to have my defective filter returned and replaced. I sent it UPS back to them, and just received my replacement today. It appears to be exactly the same as before, the glass is just sitting in the Bay-1 ring without any type of front reinforcement or retaining ring. I have a feeling that if I put it to use the exact same issue would happen. I guess the next step is to send a message to Schneider Optical and ask about how the filter is supposed to be constructed.

Has anyone else who had this problem contacted them? I would be interested to hear how it went.

Роберт · Sep 1, 2011

All reasons to change to Heliopan I think ..... Never had any problems with their Bay I filters.

rdtaylor_sea · Sep 2, 2011

I just received the replacement for one of the two defective Bay II B+W filters that I purchased from B&H (they neglected to send me a replacement for the second one).

It is exactly the same as the first one. The glass is only glued into the mount. No retaining ring at all. Apparently Schneider is not constructing these things with retaining rings any more. If I didn't have the box that it came in I wouldn't know which brand it was or what kind of filter it is. I'm going to keep this one, and hope the glass doesn't fall out, but I'm very disappointed and I'm not going to be buying any more.

rdtaylor_sea · Sep 15, 2011

Further update on this. I received a response to an email that I sent to Schneider Kreuznach. Since they will longer be manufacturing bay mount filters, they've stopped installing retaining rings in the mounts. Apparently they feel that the rings aren't necessary, despite that fact that I myself have had a couple of them come apart.

I certainly won't be purchasing any more B+W Bay filters and, to be frank, I would not have expected this from a company with the history of S-Z.

Bay 1 filter glass fell out!

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