Batteryless meters?

knj · Mar 8, 2020

Anyone have any comments,discussion, recommendations regard such meters. Would like to have a small backup in the bags/kits.
Thanks
Ken

Pieter12 · Mar 8, 2020

You're better off with a back-up battery or two.

Sirius Glass · Mar 8, 2020

BAC1967 · Mar 8, 2020

The Weston Master V is my favorite. Any of the Weston Master series are good but the older models are less likely to be accurate. I do have a Master I that is still accurate though. These were very popular meters and were used by many professionals.

http://www.westonmeter.org.uk/westonfive.htm

runswithsizzers · Mar 8, 2020

I believe all of the batteryless meters use selenium photo cells. In general, they are less sensitive in low light compared to more modern cadmium and silicon photocells.

I used a batteryless Gossen Pilot 2 for several decades, but finally replaced it because it started reading about 2-stops too low. I also had a Kodak Retina Reflex IV and the selenium meter in that camera was also about 2 stops low.

I did quite a bit of reading, but I was never able to answer the question, "Does long-term exposure to light cause selenium cell meters to "wear out" resulting in lower readings as they age?"

Of course, if a meter is always off by the same amount, it can still be used - just select an ASA (ISO) setting that results in the same reading as a meter known to be reliable. But if I was considering an older selenium cell meter, I would want to be sure it was accurate (more-or-less) before buying.

AgX · Mar 8, 2020

Selenium cell meters are less sensitive than meters with successor types of cells. Aso they may have fatigue issues during metering.
Old cells often have age related issues. Many are even dead.

However they are dirt cheap when found in rummáge boxes (but so are Cds cells meters too...). I would buy one /several used and check them against a modern meter.

btaylor · Mar 8, 2020

Long time fan of the Weston meters. One from 1946. George at Light Metric fixed it up about a decade ago and it works great- don’t know for how long though. I got a V recently and it is accurate, but I was just lucky. I really think a phone app it the best back up though, mine never goes out of adjustment.

Kodachromeguy · Mar 8, 2020

As several folks above noted, many older selenium cell light meters are no longer accurate, if they work at all. Often they are non-linear in their response. Some can be repaired by cleaning the contacts where wires attach to the backing material that holds the selenium. But often it is hopeless. As far as I know, the only non-battery meter still in production is the Sekonic L-398A Studio Deluxe III.

Bill Burk · Mar 9, 2020

I've got several Weston meters and only a couple were completely dead. The rest may have needed to have a few screws tightened, but they all work well.

The Master III is the first one with ASA speeds. So I'd start with that one. Stick a Zone System sticker on it to get the most out of it.

Bill Burk · Mar 9, 2020

Oh, but I would look at the Sekonic Twin Mate L-208. It's a tiny lightweight meter and the battery is readily available and long-lasting.

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 9, 2020

I only recommend Sekonic Studio Deluxe 398 in all its incarnations. I do not own the last v.III, and it does not have the sex appeal of earileir versions. So far 2 old meters are as good as new in accuracy. Takes a little to get used to their style, but to me they are ahead of Weston.

AgX · Mar 9, 2020

As a side note, I never came across any Weston or any Sekonic meter...

guangong · Mar 9, 2020

Seconicn Studio Delux meters are what I use for movies. However, OP is looking for a small backup for his battery powered meter. Since smaller selenium cell meters are less sensitive, the better choice, as already mentioned, is to put a spare battery in bag, always use it to replace exhausted battery and put new battery into bag. Then battery in bag always fresh.
I have several Seconic meters and bought a brand new one just last year.

wahiba · Mar 9, 2020

I have a couple of Johnson Calculators, one for negative film and one for positive film that I find work well out of doors. They are based on some British Standard tables that can be used for calculating exposure. A combination of weather, subject, time of year time of day and latitude.

There are similar devices for studio work but really interior lighting as not as standard as daylight. No doubt that once some experience had been established with a particular interior set up such a system might work.

Digital cameras have their uses and courtesy of an old Fuji A400 a snap of the calculators and a card I made myself. I have them for 100 and 400asa as well

Ian Grant · Mar 9, 2020

I have a couple of Leningrad 4 meters, small and surprisingly accurate and reliable, one cost £2 ($2.60). So I always have one with me as a back up meter.

Ian

GRHazelton · Mar 9, 2020

George at Light Metrics is indeed the man. He repaired/replaced the tiny light bub in my old Pentax Spotmeter, and calibrated it. Cost was reasonable, and turnaround was, IIRC, less than 2 weeks. I have 2 selenium cell meters, one is a Norwood Director, a classic. Both work properly, within 1/2 stop of the Pentax - but for how long who knows??

bsdunek · Mar 9, 2020

When I was doing camera repair, I found that the problem with selenium meters was the contact point. The surface corrodes and the spring loaded contacts don't make good contact. I could often clean the contact areas of both the cell and the "fingers", and the meter would work fine again. I have my Dad's Weston Master from the early 50's, and it works well. I have cleaned the contacts a couple of times over the years.
I'm not saying that is the only thing than can go wrong - cleaning might not work every time.

jim10219 · Mar 9, 2020

There are some silicon meters. I've even heard of people replacing selenium cells with silicon cells (with some additional circuitry to compensate for the voltage difference). I don't know how accurate they are though. But that's what Sekonic uses in their new L-398A, so I bet it can be made to be fairly accurate.

Though, like selenium meters, they don't do well in low light, and unlike selenium cells, don't respond to color very accurately (at least not without proper filtration). Hence whey manufacturers still use CdS cells in most meters.

Point being, backup batteries are best. Try to use lithium batteries (not the lithium ion rechargeable, but the one-time-use lithium versions of current batteries) if possible. They not only last longer, but they don't leak like alkaline, which preserves your gear while it's collecting dust in the closet in winter.

grahamp · Mar 9, 2020

When i was using a Weston a lot, and had to deal with low light, I used a white card the same way one would a grey card, and applied a correction (in my case two and a half stops). The white surface increases the level the meter reads and can get it off the bottom of the scale.

Selenium does have better spectral response compared to film than the older CdS cells. Silicon is pretty close as well.

macfred · Mar 9, 2020

My batteryless exposure calculator for backup :

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 9, 2020

jim10219 said:
There are some silicon meters. I've even heard of people replacing selenium cells with silicon cells (with some additional circuitry to compensate for the voltage difference). I don't know how accurate they are though. But that's what Sekonic uses in their new L-398A, so I bet it can be made to be fairly accurate.

Though, like selenium meters, they don't do well in low light, and unlike selenium cells, don't respond to color very accurately (at least not without proper filtration). Hence whey manufacturers still use CdS cells in most meters.

Point being, backup batteries are best. Try to use lithium batteries (not the lithium ion rechargeable, but the one-time-use lithium versions of current batteries) if possible. They not only last longer, but they don't leak like alkaline, which preserves your gear while it's collecting dust in the closet in winter.

I don't know what you just said. Silicon cells don't do well in low light????

MattKing · Mar 9, 2020

Witold said:
I don't know what you just said. Silicon cells don't do well in low light????

I believe he is referring to Sekonik's newest silicon based "Amorphous" battery-less meters, where the selenium cells have been replaced.

mrosenlof · Mar 10, 2020

The Sekonic L-398A is the current model of a long line of no-battery meters (norwood director is it's ancestor). It uses a silicon cell not selenium, is kind of low-medium priced, and is not that sensitive to low light. I like mine.

KenS · Mar 10, 2020

knj said:
Anyone have any comments,discussion, recommendations regard such meters. Would like to have a small backup in the bags/kits.
Thanks
Ken

I just went downstairs to my darkroom and 'checked' my ageing Sekonic.. There is no battery therein.

Ken

trondsi · Mar 19, 2020

I have had a Weston Master V for several years, and I am still impressed that it seems to give more accurate readings than many of my other meters (though I don't have any high-end pro spot meters). Ian Partridge sells them refurbished, with invercone (for incidental) plus manual. It's expensive, but if you buy from ebay you really don't know what you get.

Batteryless meters?

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