Batman movie uses IMAX scenes, has the movie world buzzing..

Sean

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I've seen a lot of chatter about the incredible IMAX scenes in the new Batman. Many of the comments I have read online show moviegoers blown away by the quality. Comments such as "I felt like I was literally in the scene". I am wondering if we'll see a shift to IMAX in future big budget movies. What if any do you think the impact of this could be on our craft? One comment I saw at a popular techie site: "8 years after George pioneered digital, film is king."

Anyway it's great to see film getting some buzz in the motion picture industry.. for a while now everything was "Red One 4k" digital movie camera.
 

Marco B

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Nice idea of course, putting a big budget movie on IMAX. Must have been a hell of a lot of rendering time to create all the scenes for the digital exposure of the large IMAX film.

However, here in the Netherlands, the only IMAX theatre (in Rotterdam) has gone bankrupt, only an OMNIMAX theatre is left, which is doing good, but probably can't handle the IMAX film.

"I felt like I was literally in the scene"

Nothing new here, both IMAX and OMNIMAX almost cover the visual field of the human eye, with OMNIMAX even more due to the dome like screen.

But even IMAX can be very powerful. I remember seeing a documentary in Rotterdam showing a flight over the Grand Canyon. The moment the plane dived into the Canyon, you could literally feel it in your stomach...
 

Marco B

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Well, OK, it appears we have a new IMAX theatre in Amsterdam... and it even runs this movie!
 

David Brown

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Marco B said:
But even IMAX can be very powerful. I remember seeing a documentary in Rotterdam showing a flight over the Grand Canyon. The moment the plane dived into the Canyon, you could literally feel it in your stomach...
Click to expand...

That was the first Imax movie I ever saw (at the Grand Canyon - over 20 years ago) and I was hooked. I don't miss a chance to see many ...
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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I really hope they keep doing feature film on IMAX. The image is just so beautiful and gorgeous, richly detailed. After all, feature films on 70mm used to be common earlier in the 20th century.

And we could tell people that 120 film is THE SAME SIZE (almost...) as an IMAX frame!

I, for one, will now call my 120 shots "IMAX stills."
 

Toffle

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mhv said:
And we could tell people that 120 film is THE SAME SIZE (almost...) as an IMAX frame!

I, for one, will now call my 120 shots "IMAX stills."
Click to expand...

I'm really liking the sound of that.
 

GGardner

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Sean said:
I've seen a lot of chatter about the incredible IMAX scenes in the new Batman.
Click to expand...

Can anyone tell me what this means? I've read that some scenes where shot on IMAX film (essentially medium format), but presumably most movie goers are watching a 35mm print. Can you see a difference on a regular screen, or only the full IMAX display system?
 

JOSarff

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A 70mm (anamorphic enlargement from 35mm) frame is 5 perfs high by the width of the film. Imax is 15 perfs high. That is close to a 120 frame.

I'm not sure how many feet per minute Imax runs at but it's a lot more than 35mm's 90 fpm. My guess is about 225.
 

Marco B

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Showing IMAX film on a regular screen might give you more detail than regular 35mm based film, BUT it's a plain insult to show it that way...

IMAX and OMNIMAX are designed to be shown on huge screens of something like 10x16 meters or so, so literally stories high, filling up almost your entire visual field and acting on all your senses. All official IMAX theatres work like that... and they use special 15K(!)Watt Xenon projector lamps to do it, water cooled if I remember it well.

Going back to Sean's original post. Will it make a difference? It certainly is promising to see a new field of analog IMAX films opening up... Up to now, IMAX and OMNIMAX films have been almost exclusively documentaries. While there is nothing wrong with that, this might attract new crowds to these theatres and even open up the possibility of new theatres being opened exclusively running these big budget type films, instead of documentaries. Who knows?

Digitally remastering and than digitally exposing on IMAX film is probably cheaper and undoubtedly easier to do than shooting IMAX film "in the field".
 
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f/stopblues

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If someone were to watch the movie on a 35mm projector, that person would experience it as if it were shot on 35mm. Imagine taking a MF negative and making a duplicate neg on 35mm film; essentially that is the same effect. The IMAX screen uses a whole different projector (veeery expensive!!) that handles the larger format film.

That is how I understand it, in any case. Take with a grain of salt
 

Marco B

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JOSarff said:
I'm not sure how many feet per minute Imax runs at but it's a lot more than 35mm's 90 fpm. My guess is about 225.
Click to expand...

According to the website of the OMNIMAX theatre here in the Netherlands, the film runs at 100 meter / minute (so about 300 fpm).

That makes for 12 km of film for a 2 hour main feature film...
 

markbb

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Many movie goers will watch a digital projection, certainly in the UK at least. for some strange reason. many cinemas have received National Lottery funding to rip out the 35mm projectors and go digital.
 

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Most of the movie was shot on 35mm, with about 35min shot on 65mm IMAX. Shooting on IMAX must be like big-budget Super-8, only about 2:30 of shooting before you have to reload! From what I hear, on the 35mm prints most theatres will get the scenes shot on IMAX are cropped to fit the anamorphic frame so in effect you are missing a large chunk of the movie if you don't see it at an IMAX theatre.

A great description of what film is capable of can be found on the ARRI Group website. While this article is geared towards translating what film does in to the digital world it spends a good deal of time explaining the differences between resolution an sharpness, comparing Super 16mm to Super 35mm to 65mm film capabilities. Even though the technical language can be a bit thick at times, I know actually have some idea of what an MTF curve actually is! One bonus for those interested is that it puts in to perspective the problems with digital projection and gives good explanations of why film will still be supreme in the motion picture world for the forseeable future. I especially love their endorsement of 65mm.

Oh, and if you think a new 'blad is expensive check out the price of one of their 16mm cameras, let alone 35mm, 65mm, or full-frame digital.
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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OK here's the deal: 90% of photography was made on 35mm. Normal film. The rest was shot on IMAX camera. Big, juicy, detail-rich negatives.

So how do they put them together? They take the 35mm, and enlarge it on 70mm print stock. Then they splice it with the IMAX shots (also on 70mm).

Now you have a nice stack of huge fat rolls of 70mm film, that you're going to project with a badass projector that has a lamp filled with 25 atmospheres of Xenon and two rods that create a mean, powerful light. You then put some Leitz Canada projection lens in front of it, and you project it on a screen the size of two storeys.

So when it's just the enlarged normal 35mm shots, you have a nice enveloping, panoramic format image across the screen. Still way bigger than regular cinema screen. But here and there, the image just switch to a different aspect ratio, because they did not shoot the IMAX footage with a matte box. No, now you have a full-screen sequence, two storeys high that fills your visual field. And that's where the fun start.

So yes, everything is projected from an IMAX print, with the IMAX projector and the IMAX screen, but only part of the original footage comes from an IMAX negative. It remains that the enlarged 35mm still looks very wicked from the quality of the projector system.
 

Kilgallb

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What makes the IMAX frame even better is the film runs left to right, not top to bottom. Tis yields a larger area. The WIKIPEDIA web site has an excellent technical explanation.
 

Robert Budding

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I just returned from seeing Batman on a normal movie screen. I thought it had a weak plot, and the dialog was poor. Action sequences were standard Hollywood fare. But the Joker was really creepy.
 

Fintan

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Ok heres a new one to me, add three times the amount of silver to a film.

See Dead Link Removed

'From a technical perspective, we have set out to achieve a completely new
visual style that hasn't been seen before. We're shooting the film on color
stock but are using a method inspired by the Oz process which was developed
at Technicolor by Mike Zacharia and Bob Olson. Basically we are adding three
times as much silver. It creates a surreal texture that is in keeping with
the notion of the entire picture - feeling detached from the world we know
today.'
 

Bob F.

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I went in search... found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technicolor#Three-strip_Technicolor - I'm guessing this is what they mean (The Wizard Of Oz was shot using it).

Exactly how whatever it is they are doing was "inspired" by it, I have no idea...


Cheers, Bob.
 

Vaughn

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Marco B said:
snip...But even IMAX can be very powerful. I remember seeing a documentary in Rotterdam showing a flight over the Grand Canyon. The moment the plane dived into the Canyon, you could literally feel it in your stomach...
Click to expand...

I saw the IMAX movie at the Worlds Fair in Spokane, Washington in 1974. There was a speeded up scene taken from a car on a freeway. Upon exiting, I remember one poor lady throwing up in the bushes. Too real for her!

Vaughn
 

Kino

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Showscan was even more impressive that IMAX, IMHO.

65mm film at 60 fps... astounding clarity...
 

Tim Gray

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Well I just saw Batman in IMAX. I was impressed. The IMAX-originated scenes consisted of the opening scene, a big chase at night later in the movie, and most of the aerial shot footage. I tended not to notice too much when the shots went IMAX->35mm, even though the aspect ratio changed, but then later in the movie, when the switched back to IMAX, you noticed every time since it looks so amazing.

They should totally make more Hollywood movies for IMAX.
 

David Nardi

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IMAX is simply the highest resolution, vividly textured and tonaly pure motion picture image available today. The film frame is roughly the size of a 6x7 negative and runs horizontally through the camera/projector at 15 perfs per frame. I was on an IMAX set and they actually use a modified Pentax 67 as a directors finder. This helps them to line up the shot with the actual camera lens before they haul the huge camera in place. The camera originates on 65mm stock and it is transferred to 70mm print/projection stock. The extra 5mm is where they add the soundtrack to. The idea is to save weight when shooting. I guess 5mm's off each roll makes a difference.

I watch every film I can in IMAX. The Hollywood films are blown up to IMAX and look pretty good but films shot on location in IMAX are astounding. Batman is the first Hollywood movie to shoot select scenes in IMAX. One of my major goals is to make IMAX originated films in the future.

If you haven't done so already, please go and watch IMAX 3D. IMAX 3D carries the same level of information but in stunning 3D. No, not red/blue anaglyph, but full colour, parallel view, true 3D. There are two IMAX Rolling Loop projectors...crazy! Add a pair of polarized shades and you are in business.

I took a non-believer friend of mine to watch Deep Sea 3D in London, England at the BFI IMAX. Thinking the 3D effect was a sort of gimmick he came out completely stunned and will watch every 3D film from now on. Under the Sea 3D is the second part to this film and will be released in Spring 2009. Dead Link Removed. I saw kids during the movie reach out toward the screen trying to grab the fish! 3D will change the movie going experience, if it isn't already. Dreamworks Animation and Pixar announced that as of next year all of their films will be 3D ready.

I am hooked in LF motion pictures and photography. There has been talk of going to digital projection soon for all formats including IMAX. There is still plenty of argument surrounding the quality of 70mm projection, digital doesn't even come close. Unfortunately, it comes down to cheapening the system so the industry can put more money in their pockets. Who knows how many great products were lost to the ages because of thier cost. I know IMAX has had thier troubles but I hope we don't see a Rolling Loop projector in a museum 10 years from now.

David

David S. Nardi Photography
www.davidnardi.com
 
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